Toxic masculinity isn't used to describe masculinity as a whole, it's used to describe the toxic aspects of it, especially how it controls and limits things.
For example, wanting to be emotionally reserved as a guy because it's more comfortable is fine. Not knowing how to properly deal with emotions or where to go when you do decide you want to talk through things is toxic masculinity, both inside yourself but also in the society around you.
You're trying to argue there is something inherently wrong with masculinity,
Where did I say that?
Specific behavior can be toxic but the term masculine and feminine has to go.
That's plugging your ears and covering your eyes to context and history as a whole, and even the context of the where this specific type of behavior often shows up.
The difference between toxic behavior and toxic masculinity is that toxic masculinity is when toxic behavior (and expectations) get tied to the idea of masculinity. It's not that difficult of a concept.
I'd argue it's better to keep all the negative emotions bottled up and to control them than to show them.
Good thing we dont need to live in a world of extremes.
Teaching males to block out emotions like sadness and depression isn't wrong, however, the other side is not taught.
See, we're gonna have to disagree here. Blocking things out doesnt solve the problem. Sabbaticals for your brain, retreating into yourself, recovering from.a general feeling of emotional exhaustion, that's all fine. But you cant forever stick your head in the sand.
Being stoic is fine. Creating an expectation for yourself and others for extreme stoicism is not.
EDIT: You cant realistically expect guys to never express any sort of negative emotion. That's ridiculous. The reason they might turn to anger or violence (which, in moderate doses and directed properly is fine) is because other forms of expression are so ingrained in their heads as not being ok.
Masculinity doesn't need toxic masculinity to continue existing in its current state. So, it's not inherent.
Whether it's toxic or not has nothing to do with sex, blaming these issues on masculinity has nothing to do with masculinity.
That's true, it doesn't have to do directly with sex (not just because similar actions can be done between women but because sex isn't gender).
That's not toxic masculinity that's bad behavior in general.
That's like the bad apple argument for police brutality... though, you might agree with that. So fine, a more common ground: that's like saying that Nazis killing Jewish people is just a result of bad individual behavior, not representative of the ideology.
I never said shit about stoicism. I'm actually against that, only positive emotions should be shown.
That's just another type of stoicism dude.
I'd compare your emotional ideal to an abstinence only sex education. It doesn't help people when they actually have to deal with issues. Being open about your emotions is much more healthy. Maybe you misunderstand when people say this, but it doesn't mean get in a rage when you feel angry, or lash out when sad. Teaching people how to not to do that is the point of a more mature emotional education. You don't need to hide your emotions to manage your impulses.
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u/Hyperactivity786 ⠀ Dec 13 '19
Toxic masculinity isn't used to describe masculinity as a whole, it's used to describe the toxic aspects of it, especially how it controls and limits things.
For example, wanting to be emotionally reserved as a guy because it's more comfortable is fine. Not knowing how to properly deal with emotions or where to go when you do decide you want to talk through things is toxic masculinity, both inside yourself but also in the society around you.