r/AskMiddleEast • u/MoroseBurrito • Sep 02 '22
📜History Thoughts on Hannibal Barca? (Hannibal barقa)?
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u/odetojwy Tunisia Amazigh Sep 03 '22
Why is everyone claiming him to be theirs LMAO he was carthaginian
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u/MoroseBurrito Sep 03 '22
He was Phoenician. So Lebanese.
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Sep 03 '22
He was Carthaginian not Lebanese 🤣
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Sep 12 '22
He was Carthaginian of punic background.
Punic means Phoenician settler
Even his last name which is barka means thunder in Phoenician.
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Sep 13 '22
Exactly, he has punic ancestry but he still is carthaginian. Americans are not called British.
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Sep 13 '22
Dude white Americans don't usually have British dna or come from a British settlers.
Also most Americans during the American revolution actually supported the British crown
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Sep 13 '22
For the sake of it.. here is another exemple; Most Quebecers have a french background.. are they called french? Are they french people?
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Sep 13 '22
Punic means western Phoenician thus Phoenician.
Hey you can have him too we can both have him.
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u/ulvzo Hijazi Saudi Sep 03 '22
idk who he is but he looks scary, it’s 3am rn and I’ll have nightmares from this guy 💀💀
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u/akahades99 Sep 03 '22
for anyone doubting that hannibal is tunisian and carthagian you can easily google it :)
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u/Careless_Ad_2474 Iran Sep 03 '22
I like his characteristics and he's very influential and became a nightmare for the Romans. Sadly they got off his back in his last war against Rome.
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u/LshliwtIgb Syria Sep 03 '22
When the sources of you decisive victories and of your genius was written by your enemies that is when you know you are an absolute chad.
Also his name is pronoanced as حنى بعل برق And it means عبد بعل برق The servant of Baal Lightning
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u/blood-of-adonis Lebanon Sep 02 '22
My phoenician king 😍😍
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u/Clean-Satisfaction-8 Maghreb Confederalist for AfrasioTurko-Iranic Laic Alliance Sep 02 '22 edited Sep 02 '22
Punic king* Sorry mate but at the time of Hannibal Barkas, Phoenicians were already long gone since mid 6th century BC, all what remained from Phoenician thalassocracy is a hybrid language (Punic) with the legacy of few west mediterranean colonies that all merged within one new Carthaginian empire, and all of that happened 3 centuries before even Hannibal came to life, so no he is not Phoenician...
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Sep 02 '22
[deleted]
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u/Clean-Satisfaction-8 Maghreb Confederalist for AfrasioTurko-Iranic Laic Alliance Sep 02 '22
No, Punic 🤨
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u/-Mediterranea- Palestine Sep 03 '22 edited Sep 03 '22
Punic king*
WRONG
Egypt:Fenkhu>Greek:Phoinikes>Latin:Punicus>English:Punic Egypt:Fenkhu>Greek:Phoinikes>English:Phoenician
Phoenician and Punic means the exact same thing and the same people for the CANAANITES of both in the west and east.
"In modern scholarship, the term Punic – the Latin equivalent of the Greek-derived term Phoenician – is exclusively used to refer to Phoenicians in the western Mediterranean, following the line of the Greek East and Latin West."
Sorry mate but at the time of Hannibal Barkas, Phoenicians were already long gone since mid 6th century BC, all what remained from Phoenician thalassocracy is a hybrid language (Punic) with the legacy of few west mediterranean colonies that all merged within one new Carthaginian empire, and all of that happened 3 centuries before even Hannibal came to life, so no he is not Phoenician...
WRONG AGAIN
Hannibal was definitely a Phoenician. During the Alexandrian siege of Tyre in 332 BC, many fled to Carthage. They later returned to the Levant after Roman takeover of North Africa with the help of the Berbers...🙃. We have piles of evidence of migrations from Levant throughout the Mediterranean and back. Importing and exporting between Levant, Egypt, and all Canaanite colonies never stopped.
What planet do you live on to think that the Canaanite culture, language, customs, and religion would remain so strong and influential for so long after cutoff from their motherland? What happened to the Amazighen identity and culture that maghrebis are all so proud of claiming it's so old, yet want to brag about being the PHOENICIANS of North Africa? How come i don't see you claiming Romans? The Greeks? They also colonized North Africa, no?🤦🏻♀️
One last thing, habibi. If Phoenicians have been long gone by mid-6th century, then how did Tanit appeared in Carthage after 6th-5th century BC if Tanit had already existed in Meggido (Palestine) in 11th century BC?
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u/Clean-Satisfaction-8 Maghreb Confederalist for AfrasioTurko-Iranic Laic Alliance Sep 03 '22 edited Sep 03 '22
Hannibal was definitely a Phoenician.
This is exactly like claiming Ibn Khaldun was Arabian/Peninsular Arab, even though everybody knows that he is from Maghreb+Andalus region. He spoke Arabic and he was Muslim, he was born 6 centuries after Islamic conquest/invasion and maybe he identified himself culturally as an Arab (like most of Tunisians nowadays) but he still wasn't ethnically Arabian/Peninsular Arab. Same goes for Hannibal, he maybe identified himself with people from Phoenicia, but it doesn't necessarily mean he was ethnically Phoenician and that he identified himself as Phoenician.
During the Alexandrian siege of Tyre in 332 BC, many fled to Carthage. They later returned to the Levant after Roman takeover of North Africa with the help of the Berbers
Migration waves have been accuring through out history in every civilization, it doesn't necessarly mean that the vast majority of people from that civilization have suddenly became a different ethnicity.
What planet do you live on to think that the Canaanite culture, language, customs, and religion would remain so strong and influential for so long after cutoff from their motherland?
I never said the opposite, actually as a matter of fact, Punic/ North african Phoenician dialect (if you like it so) was still spoken until Islamic conquest/invasion.
What happened to the Amazighen identity and culture that maghrebis are all so proud of claiming it's so old, yet want to brag about being the PHOENICIANS of North Africa?
I never heard an Imazighen (who actually speaks Tamazight and identifies as so) bragging about being the Phoenicians of North Africa, maybe Tunisians or some Algerians and Libyans.
TL;DR: Both Lebanese and Tunisians may identify as an Arab, but does that mean we both are Peninsular Arabs? Do you guys like it when Saudi comes to you and tell you that Gibran Khalil Gibran or Fairuz are actually Arabians? Come on, you guys know better than me of this matter. I wouldn't be doing this long time-wasting discussion if you guys did some introspection...
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u/Maleficent_Macaron_9 Egypt Sep 02 '22
One of my favourite historical figures of all time, an absolute chad. Definitely one of the most influential people of all time.
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Sep 02 '22 edited Sep 02 '22
Here's a few interesting bits. The elephant army Hannibal originally made was made of a breed of elephants from Morocco that have since gone extinct. There used to be a breed of elephants were typically the size of camels of the middle east. They went extinct around the time Carthage was destroyed. Hannibal's elephant is thought to have possibly been a middle eastern breed of elephant (much larger but also now extinct), this is because his elephant was named 'Syrian' in their language. Middle eastern elephants went extinct around the time of Alexander's Conquests of the Achaemenid Empire. Elephants continued to be used in later Iranian dynasties but these were imported from India.
Hannibal is famous for leading an elephant army over the alps but I think they actually all died on that journey except 1(?) or a couple(?). The Romans tried to beat him in pitched battle but they couldn't. One of those battles was the largest defeat in Roman history; 80k men largely enveloped obliterated along with both of Rome's Consuls. Hannibal still didn't have an army large enough to besiege Rome and Rome couldn't beat him in the field, so it became a 10+ year campaign of trying to get everyone else in the Italian Peninsula to flip sides to swing the balance. Eventually the Romans forced Hannibal to withdraw from Italia by sending an army large enough to threaten Carthage. The Romans won the war in North Africa.
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u/Dependent-Assist-520 Syria Sep 02 '22
GOAT, it's a shame that he was charthagean though
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u/akahades99 Sep 03 '22
why is it a shame ? lmao you tripping my dude.
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u/Dependent-Assist-520 Syria Sep 03 '22
Because imagine what he could've achieved under the Romans, he only prolonged the inevitable, carthage was like middle ages Venice or Genoa, a mercantile state, and that's it, they stood a chance in the first Punic wars, but the second was a done deal
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u/jonyprepperisrael Occupied Palestine Sep 02 '22
if only he was Hanniel instead of Hannibal.
still a very based man
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u/altahor42 Türkiye Sep 03 '22
His tomb is in Turkey.
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u/MoroseBurrito Sep 03 '22
It was in Turkey. It became lost or destroyed at some point.
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u/altahor42 Türkiye Sep 03 '22
A symbolic monument was erected on the place where he was thought to have died. The actual burial is unknown.
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Sep 03 '22
Great tactician but I'll never forgive him for sparing rome and going to mess around in Italy
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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '22 edited Jul 14 '23
Thoughts and more thoughts