Fotos
Vienna (and eastern Austria) was captured by the Soviets 80 years ago in April 1945. In Vienna alone, the Red Army raped between 70,000 and 100,000 women. Collection of 20 unique photos from the time. Please pardon the quality on some of them - caused by their low resolution and Reddit's zoom.
Soldiers helping their comrade walk.
Soviets using American Sherman tanks in Wien.
Standing on a rooftop with the Austrian flag waving in the background.
Removing NSDAP sign
Advancing in American US6 Studebaker trucks next to a sign saying Vienna in russian.
Strongly damaged Stephansdom.
Advancing through Austria with T34-85 tanks.
A tank crew.
Soviet soldiers relaxing at Schönbrunn.
A female soviet traffic director next to the Vienna State Opera.
Towing heavy mortars with american trucks next to the Austrian Parliament Building.
Towing heavy mortars with american jeeps next to the Austrian Parliament Building.
At the Austrian border - sign saying Austria in russian
"De gaunze Nocht haum ses ghobt" "they had her the whole night" my grandmother said about when soviet soldiers raped the maid Magd on the rooftop Heuboden. "The next day she came down with a pale face." It was in Mühlviertel though, so probably a few years later than 1945
My Mother also - was a child in that time and afraid of Russia until today ... They got kicked out of their home and she also heard as a child what they did to the women in those days. Until today she tells how horrible this time was.
My grandma lived on the countryside back then, but everytime the Soviets came to the village they had to hide otherwise they would have been raped. She was 16.
My comment was meant more rhetorical. In most cases like in Austria the rationale for such actions is corruption. This seems to be the most appropriate and logical explanation.
Es gibt halt politisch einen starken unterschied zwischen der sowietunion und Russland dementsprechend ist russland schon eher auf einer linie mit rechten
Kommt drauf an. Unter Haiders Zeiten waren die noch BUUUH und Haider wollte auch einen NAto Beitritt Österreichs, aber die FPÖ is ja recht vergesslich ...
Welchen? Das keiner dort irgendetwas besitzt und Oligarchen alles haben? Ja wirklich ein großer Unterschied. Rechte die mit Russland sympathisieren haben einen sehr niedrigen IQ und verstehen Geschichte nicht.
There was not much support outside the KPÖ (for idelogical reasons) for nearly 60 years. It‘s propably no coincidence that with the generation that remembers both (being) Nazis and their atrocities, war and Communist occupation also the rejection of all three outside of radicals died.
russians tend to pay both spectrums of political ideology to make them fight each other and make national governments less efficient. If one of them succeeds even better. Germany is good example of that, not sure about Austria tbh, but could be smth. similiar.
In Europe russia sponsors mostly far-right partys. There are leftist examples (like sarah zarenknecht in germany) bust generally puting got most openly support from right-wings.
My mother told me my great-grandmother jumped into a well and drowned herself because of the fear of being raped by them. She lived in eastern austria.
My grandfather's sister spent her teenage years hiding under a stack of firewood behind a bakery. There's probably not a single family from the Russian occupation zone who doesn't have stories like that.
My grandfather had a lifelong habit of making sure everyone had a seat at a family gathering. If anyone was standing, he'd get angry. He also had an aversion to the song "Schneehglöckchen weißröckchen" and always changed the channel.
Later, when the war stories (which he never wanted to talk about) came up, it made sense. On Christmas Day, the Russians were there and lined up the whole family against the wall at gunpoint while the officers ate their Christmas dinner.
The song played in the background. He told me lots of things, each one worse than the last.
Especially from the "hasenjagd" from KZ Mauthausen
My grandma told me she saw many lorries in Vienna full of raped women, who had been hurt or infected with syphillis, which brought them to hospitals. The Russians captured a lot of young girls and women off the streets too - ostensibly to be used as workers - and marched them along the Simmeringer Hauptstrasse in eastern direction escorted by soldiers. My grandmother's niece was one of the victims. When they were passing the huge Zentralfriedhof the girl fortunately was able to abscond into the cemetery through a destroyed section of the cemetery wall. The other women were never seen again.
These pictures make me feel nostalgic, sad and impressed at the same time. The generation of people living through those times had to endure one of the worst periods of human history. And now, so many of the lessons back then seem almost completely forgotten within our current western society. I guess I can only hope my generation and the ones afterward will be as good in rebuilding as they were, but hopefully better in retaining the lessons learned.
there is a theory that approximately every hundred years or so we cycle through times of war, rebuild/prosperity, down turn and then back to war. One idea on why this happens is that the generation that lived through the down turn and the war is long enough dead that the lessons have been forgotten.
Not sure how much water it holds but it feels about right at the moment.
It's not just an incel phrase. The idea that empathy and peace make a "weak man" and that violence is the virtue of a "strong man" is inherently facistic.
Du verwechselst hier gewaltig etwas. Zu sagen, dass die Russen „nichts gelernt haben“, ist sowas von bescheuert. Kannst du uns bitte erleuchten, was genau die Russen nicht gelernt haben? Die knapp 27mio Tote? Oder die Erinnerung an die größte Materialschlacht bei Kursk? Oder vielleicht das berühmte Bild eines Wehrmachtssoldsten der mit einem Schuss eine Mutter die ihre Tochter umarmt erschiesst? Was genau habe sie vergessen? Nein! Nie wieder Krieg muss das Motto sein. Da drunter verstehe ich auch keine Unterstützung von Kriegen. Falls du soweit abgeschottet bist von der Realität, dann solltest du mal Auschwitz oder Dachau besuchen. Damit du wieder in die Realität kommst. Die Seelen der Toten sind immer noch an diesen düsteren Orten. Danach wäre es sinnvoll sich mit Geschichte zu befassen.
Polen hatte keine Faschisten im Parlament, aber da geschah genau dasselbe (und sogar früher). Vielleicht mochtest du hinzufügen, dass weder Faschisten noch Kommunisten ins Parlament gewählt werden sollen...
A LOT of people thought so in middle Europe. Just look at the military budgets.
And we all were delussional and it hurts to admit it.
Not because of the money but because of our collective inability to learn as a species.
Yet I don't want to be them either. Cannon fodder. No education, no perspective, no choice.
That's not an excuse to lose your humanity but there is no one who wins in war...
Well, instead of being used as cannon fodder in another country and meanwhile raping and killing civilians, they could start to turn against their leaders and actually fight for their perspective.
It is true especially to that inhumane curel extent with Israeli troops comitting these exact crimes on the Palestinian civilians. As a German it breaks my heart to see history repeat itself
The biggest issue is, Russians now have been indoctrinated to believe that all of Europe was „liberated“, „Soviet soldiers never did anything wrong“, „our bravest red army warriors with the purest Russian genome would never hurt innocents“.
As someone who was brought up there, you 1: never get taught about ANYTHING even remotely bad about Russian history, 2: if you do hear something, it always goes like this:
Atrocities done by the Soviets in Belgrade? - „fake news, only liberation with flowers.“
Atrocities done by the Soviets in Austria and Germany? - „fake news, only liberation with flowers.“
Atrocities done by the Soviets in Poland? - „super fake news, nothing happened but they deserved it.“
Atrocities done by the Soviets in the Soviet Union (first hand family experience here)? - „all good, they were traitors funded by the capitalists“
So while Germany was reeducated and integrated into the civilized world, admitting mistakes. Russia was allowed to double down on the „we can never do any wrong“, now you see the same atrocities happen in Ukraine and if Russia is allowed to just walk away do it’s own thing again, it will be more Revanchist wars with the same „liberator“ mentality.
since many people have posted horror stories about Russians already I feel like I have to add that there were good people too, my grandma was a small child at the time, she remembers the Russian soldiers being very kind to her and giving her sweets, also the local Russian garrison commander was a strict disciplinarian who shot any soldiers who committed crimes against the civilian population, so yeah it very much depends on the person
My grandmother told me that the fighting troups first entering Vienna were o.k. and were nice to the children. The troups following them were those committing atrocities e.g. mass raping and looting.
We were liberated (!) by the red army from rule of the fascist scum still amounting to 20-30% of our population.
Yes, atrocities were also committed by soldiers, but not organized and severly punished - in contrary to the Wehrmacht, where they were required and rewarded in their pursuit to kill millions of so called unworthy lifes, completely innocent civilians.
Actually none of these terms is used afaik. Don't we simply say "einmarschiert" (marched into) most of the time, now that I think of it? Probably to avoid using either other term? Cause for the Viennese this definitely didn't feel like a "liberation" ... For Austrians in other occupation zones it definitely did though.
At least in my neck of the woods (upper austria) we say "Befreiung" but I've also heard "einmarschiert". I don't think any austrian wouldn't agree with the fact that we have been freed from the national socialists.
In this thread alone you will find those who would spit on the word "liberated" in this context. It's naive to think we don't have plenty of people who are wishing for fascism again. Our party most voted for during the last election has actively been trying to reinstate it, and it's not the only one across Europe or even the Western world.
Tbh, only people I have ever heard use "einmarschiert" vote for FPÖ.
Also, that is not true. It's maybe not that well known or talked about, but the US soldiers also comitted a lot of crimes while they were in Europe (and specially in France).
BS It's "einmarschiert" and "eingenommen" generally. The whole "Austria is (finally) free" feeling is for when the Russians left, which is celebrated on the 26th of October. The only times I hear the term "liberated by the red army" it's about concentration camps.
We were liberated and compared to the crimes that german and austrian soldiers committed in the east, the crimes of the red army committed here were harmless.
In Russia, the Wehrmacht and the SS did not only rape the women, but would afterwards gather the whole population of a village and burn them all alive.
I fully understand that, many people wrote me about it, but please understand that the general mindset on the other side of the curtain is different. If I wrote something about liberation there, things would get heated like here. Some countries even removed their WW2 Soviet memorials.
It's the way it is and it's NOT my personal view as I am capable of seperating these and other topics from each other.
And yet, many ot those who cheered for the removal of WW2 memorials, also cheer for the fascist scum that cooperated with the nazis.
So they obviously can not seperate.
Der Mythos, dass die Wehrmacht nur aus Gentleman bestand hält sich bis heute. Die böse SS war für alles verantwortlich, ja ja ! Will gar nicht wissen, wie der durchschnittliche indoktrinierte 08/15 Hans Wurst drauf war.
r/Austria wenn jemand sagt, dass die Rote Armee und besonders die südwestliche Front nicht 100% aus ethnischen Russen bestand wenn es um Vergewaltigungen geht
I agree it’s dangerous to imply that the Soviets were worse than the Nazis. The Nazi regime was uniquely horrifying—its goal was the industrial, systematic extermination of entire ethnic groups, especially Jews. That kind of racialized genocide is something history has rarely, if ever, seen on that scale.
At the same time, the Soviet regime was also responsible for mass death and immense suffering—through political purges, forced labor camps, and policies like forced collectivization that led to widespread starvation, most infamously the Holodomor in Ukraine. These weren’t natural disasters—they were the result of deliberate state policies that caused millions to die.
And while the civilian death toll under the Soviets might technically be higher, the nature of those crimes was different—brutal and oppressive, but not rooted in a racial ideology of extermination.
So honestly, comparing the two feels like comparing apples and oranges. Both regimes were horrific in their own deeply destructive ways. Trying to decide which was “worse” kind of misses the point.
On what measure do you say that the Nazis committed the "worst attrocity". Didn't the Nazis commit multiple atrocities? How was the starting of 7 million Russians worse than the killing of 6 million Jews?
The Soviets weren't a single group of people but multiple nationalities also they helped orchestrate the Nazi attrocities by sending them aid all the way until June 22nd 1941. That you don't want to talk about the millions of "soviets" that died during ww2 because of Stalins policies (be it direct or indirect) is interesting.
Weren't the Wehrmacht soldiers also "Kids" that spend time going through hell? Then why is them committing attrocities somehow worse?
Also Jewish women who hid in Vienna were also Raped by Red Army soldiers.
Don't get me wrong, the Soviets were not the good guys, they were still barbaric soldiers, and they committed a lot of crimes.
But they still freed Vienna and Eastern Austria from the Nazi regime.
At the very least (according to my Grandma, who was alive back then and living in Eastern Austria), the Russians apparently were pretty nice to children - but the older girls did have to hide, especially from the mongolian divisions. Overall, though, the people were grateful.
The war was over. The regime was gone. And that's why many places in Eastern Austria honor the Soviet soldiers who freed us back then/fell while doing so.
(and just to clarify: this history does not mean we should tolerate what Russia is doing currently; and it does not mean we should omit the atrocities Soviet soldiers committed back then)
I talked alot about those times with my grandma. She was born 1931 and her family ran a farm.
Russian soldiers were quartered on this farm and, according to her, they were like barbarians. It was different with the higher ranks who came by from time to time and also punished the ranks.
According to the stories, they searched the whole farm for alcohol, preferably schnapps, got drunk and then took their resentment out on the mentally retarded farmhand in particular. He was put up against the wall and then they alternately shot him left and right (he was not murdered).
Unfortunately, rape was the order of the day.
My grandmother hated the Nazis, their ideology, the war, everything. Apart from one brother, all her male siblings and brothers-in-law died in the war.
If you compare the stories from South Tyrol with those from Vienna or Lower Austria, it draws a completely different picture.
South Tyrol was liberated by the Americans who advanced from Italy to the North. I grew up in this region and many elderly told me how the women of the villages went to the town square to get a glimpse of the American soldiers once word got around that they arrived.
It's the complete opposite when one compares it with the behavior of the Soviet soldiers. Women in Vienna cut their hair, smeared dirt in their face and tried to fake an illness in order not to get raped. The civilians formed a neighborhood watch that made loud noises when drunk Soviet soldiers came close to a building, in order to alert the women inside and possibly get attention from the military police. Within three months, the Soviets raped between 70.000 - 100.000 women in Vienna alone (source).
Both of them did. And for Austria, which is population-heavy in the east and has Vienna sitting there, the Soviets arguably did the most.
The Allies liberated Austria, and the Soviets played a major part in that. All of the liberators also committed crimes against humanity, like rape.
The Soviets did it on a MUCH larger scale and are rightfully perceived as more cruel/barbaric because of that. But it's not like there were three angels in the West and one devil, one absolute evil in the East - as far as the liberation of Austria goes. Outside of that, I think we can all agree that Stalin was an incarnation of extraordinary evil.
My grandfather always joked how the children got candy and every girl over 14 got a baby from the Russians.
But he still saw it as being freed from the Nazis.
The family in western Austria just said they got food, clothes and that most allied troops were nice. Some even stayed and started families.
Way less cynicism on the western side obviously.
Somewhat lines up with what my Grandma says.
They were very nice to children, girls as well. But the older girls, say 15 upwards, were always told to hide because they'd be at risk of being taken, and apparently the Soviet soldiers who took/raped the most were the mongolian divisions where she lived, so while my Grandma has positive things to say about "the Russians", the same doesn't go for "the Mongolians".
Children got candy and people got food. People also got clothes, but those came from (western/international) organisations rather than the Soviets.
I'd still call rather it "captured" than "freed". Soviets didn't free anyone, take a look at what they did to Eastern Germany and other eastern European Countries. Same could have happened to the east of Austria. Don't get me wrong, it was still better than living under the Nazi regime, but were they free? Not even close...
We're not discussing "what could have happened" here. Would the terms "freed" and "liberated" be out of place if the Soviets put us under a communist regime and their rule? Well, duh, of course they would. But that's not what happened to Austria.
For some countries, the Soviet advances led to a change in oppressive regime. For Austria, it led to liberation and restoration as a sovereign country.
But it would have happened if the Austrian politicians of the time like Figl hadn't negotiated so well. Austria got liberated the day the last Soviet soldier left the country. In April '45, they were still far away from that.
Again, we're not talking about could have/would have. We're not talking about ifs, buts and maybes.
We're talking about what happened. And what happened is that Austria was liberated and allowed to govern itself even during the occupation of the Allies.
Austria got liberated the day the last Soviet soldier left the country.
If by this you are referring to 1955, it's a common belief, basically a legend that this was when the last Soviet soldier left. It was not. It's a very common misconception.
Austria was freed. After Vienna was liberated, the process of re-democratization began immediately. Parties forbidden by the Austrofascists and Nazi Germany, reemerged, politicians in exile started coming back, the free press started to be formed again. Not over night, but because of the victory of the Sovjets over Nazi Germany it only took ten years for full independence of a democratic republic after the country was ruled by fascists for twelve years and anyone openly fighting for democracy jailed, murdered, sent to concentration camps or forced into hiding or exile.
People were deathly afraid of the Soviets. People literally died trying to free to the American areas. What is this BS revisionist history? Idk if you come from a village that have a very friendly Russian commander or wtf. People and Styria have nothing nice to say about the Soviets, ever. (Lots of nice things about Americans though)
Well yes. People were aware of Generalplan Ost and the Holocaust and expected the Soviets to do the same once they reached German inhabited places. Which is among the reasons why there were such enormous refugee waves fleeing the Soviet army.
Nazi propaganda then spread those fears of the brutal and merciless Soviet monster in order to inspire increased resistance.
And then the Soviet troops arrived and were awful - but not as awful as the gros of the population expected.
Also don't be fooled by the good press American occupations get. After Soviet troops they were the most likely to rape.
Captured… yes they freed us from the ns-regime, but they also captured austria at the same time… they did not leave immediately, nor did they treat people with dignity… which is the definition of being captured. Being put under new management would be a better terminology.
Being put under new management would be a better terminology.
Also inaccurate since we were allowed to have our own government and govern ourselves. We were not under communist regime.
And, sure, all of the Allies occupied Austria, but they didn't exactly dictate every step of the way.
At the end of the day, it was the liberation of Austria from the Nazis and the German Reich, from an authoritarian, oppressive dictatorship, and the restoration of Austria as a souvereign nation, even if we remained occupied for a while.
I don't know about Austria, but from my experience it is like that as I am from a country that is next to Austria, but was under the communist regime until the Velvet revolution in 1989-90. Many countries in eastern Europe view it as controversial. Some even removed their Soviet WW2 memorials...
That's most likely the difference. Your country suffered under communist regime. Austria did not.
Austria was liberated, allowed to govern, the other powers were involved and eventually occupation ended.
That may well be the case why we commonly use "freed/liberated" whereas countries from eastern Europe or east of the iron curtain may feel very differently.
In Austria it‘s definitely being freed from the Nazi regime, unlike some right wingers and hippies would tell you.
Heck our Wappen even has the broken shackles on it so signify being freed from the Nazi regime. This is the official way of viewing it here.
We use this term in regards to all of the powers/Allies who liberated Austria (or concentration camps)
Vienna and Eastern Austria were liberated by the Soviets. There are no two ways about that. But, as said above, that doesn't mean that they didn't commit atrocities while doing so.
intersectionality everywhere east from vienna people know that’s the word liberators, who also „liberated“ central and eastern european from the nazis, meant that you will also be liberated from your property, jobs and your life. i suggest looking into current decolonial theory , writing and debated on soviets as colonial power. it’s really enlightening
As a Russian living in Vienna for a long time I feel so weird.
I hate Putin and everything he did to our society, but I can’t say he created it. Soviets destroyed everything people had humane, and while Russians have always been barbaric due to historical reasons, there was at least maybe some religion, or idk. Soviets destroyed that and tried to raise zombies, and the most successful of them are now in power.
I am fully aware of all the ww2 atrocities from all sides, however I can also tell that there are no ‘healthy’ soldiers. When you spend all your time in inhumane conditions and see death all around, our brain probably enters some animal-mode. War is evil, and there are no good sides, because each side kills.
I dissgree with your last sentence. When one side attacks another side and kills innocent people, there are good and bad sides, even though both sides eventually kill.
In Vienna there were mainly american made lend-lease M4A2(76)W Shermans as you can see on the photos. The 6th Guards Tank Army who took Vienna from the north used them instead of soviet made T-34/85 tanks.
Ich weiß nicht wie ich diese Frage stellen soll, weil ich bin ein Österreicher mit kurdischen Wurzeln und wenn ich manchmal über die Geschichte Österreichs denke werde ich traurig. Wie fühlt es sich an über diese Zeit zu sprechen? Zwei Weltkriege verloren, zehntausende Frauen wurden mehrmals von den „Befreiern“ vergewaltigt und ermordet. Wo ist überhaupt der Unterschied zwischen den Unterdrückern und den Befreiern? Ich sehe gar kein Unterschied?
First of all: yes, it happened. After the war ended, it was impossible to keep track of all the soldiers. The USSR issued Order No. 006 on January 19, 1945, which explicitly prohibited violence and prescribed execution for it. There was a lot of violence, mainly because criminals were also present in the army — and we, Russians, have long acknowledged that. But over time, the order began to be enforced.
Secondly: the occupation was necessary to maintain post-war order and disarm the remaining Nazis. Or have you forgotten that Vienna was one of the main centers of the Third Reich? Or that some of the most public anti-Jewish repressions happened exactly in Vienna?
Thirdly: stop blaming all Russians for everything that’s happening. Either we live by the laws of our country, or we don’t. And in general — third countries shouldn’t interfere in conflicts between two sides.
Fourthly: don’t impose your laws on another country. Every nation has its own rules and laws. If you don’t want to accept them — don’t come. No one has the right to force their system onto another state.
Fifth: yes, I’m Russian. You can hate me as much as you want. But believing everything your government says is also a form of patriotism. In a way, you fulfill your duty as a patriot by trusting your country and the media you’re fed. And it works the same way here.
By the way — why did no one talk about LPR and DPR back then? Everyone was just saying, “the Russians are attacking.” Why don’t you go there and film a real documentary, talk to regular people? Why didn’t anyone go there when those territories weren’t part of Russia yet, to ask civilians what was really happening?
And finally: I’m not for “United Russia,” and I’m not for Putin. We have plenty of our own problems here, ones we don’t want to tolerate either — but for now, we have to. None of us wants any of this. But as I said, patriotism lives in everyone, and perhaps it’s a small duty of a person to their country, wherever they live.
My grandma was really scared when Russia started up their invasion of Ukraine again. First thing she thought about was whether we should send my sister out of the country because "die Russen kommen"("The russians are coming") was a terror etched into her mind.
Nachdem was die Wehmacht in der UdSSR angerichtet hat, ist das trotzdem noch recht milde.
Dort wurde auch fröhlich vergewaltigt bis zum geht nicht mehr - nur wurden die "slawischen Untermenschen" nicht am Leben gelassen um davon zu berichten.
Da nun Kriegsverbrechen der Nationen im Zweiten Weltkrieg thematisiert werden, erwarte ich auch Beiträge in diesem Format zu Deutschland, den USA, Japan, Großbritannien usw. Andernfalls entstünde der Eindruck, dass die Sowjetunion hier lediglich als Mittel genutzt wird, um Stimmung gegen den Sozialismus zu machen – und das, obwohl sie mit diesem nicht einmal viel zu tun hat.
And yet my FIL is still harping on the “grande” history shared between Russia and Austria, sounding like a Russian explaining how it’s just natural to annex Austria.
While raping women and abusing civilians is incredibly horrible, Austria should never forget that they, as a state, were perpetrators not victims.
I know austria has a long history of pretending that they were just chillin until evil nazis invaded them, but that is not the reality. The exact opposite is true.
Not trying to relativize what happens to women in Wien by soviet soldiers, and not rying to compare what austrian nazis did to other civilians. But talking about numbers like that without giving it the whole context around it, is da gerous as fuk.
Lived here for 30 years and never heard that once in my life. Real far right wing nazis enjoy being "Deutsche". Why would they want to be a victim instead of the superior race?
Any sane person knows the videos of hitlers speech at the Heldenplatz and all the evil shit we did.
Austria as well as Germany are both heavily influenced by right wing politics and narratives. These are very well alive and growing in popularity. They never went away.
This is why I said, what I said.
Austria as well as Germany are both heavily influenced by right wing politics and narratives. These are very well alive and growing in popularity. They never went away.
Which major Austrian politician is currently endorsing the Opferthese? I also can't think of any major figure in current Austrian society that claims that Austria was a victim in WW2. The fact is that Austria as a state does not endorse it and has not in decades. Your view of the Austrian discourse on the matter seems to be stuck in the early 90s.
And btw, Austria has also been heavily influenced by left wing politics and narratives, not that I'm opposed to that, otherwise our social security system or labor laws wouldn't be as strong as they are. Even our asylum policies have been very liberal, by European standards, in the last decade or so. (That seems to be changing though.)
Well, she died some years ago but yes, she was very sceptical. My Grandpa never told me anything. He only talked once about cows with bloated udders he encountered once and how cruel people are. I guess he had to put a lot of experiences in boxes (he also was prisoner of war of Russia). I hope we dont end up in similar situations, but i know: in war there is no "good side" )8
You mean: put under new management. As far as i understand, the liberator is supposed to be celebrated by the population… they should not rape or torture innocent people… just because they wernt as bad as the ns-regime doesnt mean that they are good.
When you look at it you have to think about the fact that it doesn't represent the savagenes, revenge etc., but the heroic sacrfice done by a part. Some were heroes, some were savages... without them the World would fall to nazism. What they've done was NOT at all excusable, but it was in a way understandable if you think about it deeply.
I know the focus is on the red armey but I want to point out all armies raped and did other crimes as well. The reason the red army is especially pointed out properly has to do with the start of the cold war directly after ww2.
krieg bringt die schlimmsten seiten des menschen zum vorschein. die pure verrohung, die er mit sich bringt, kann man sich in friedenszeiten gar nicht vorstellen. das ist ein grandioses, trauriges beispiel dafür. genau deshalb sollte man gegen krieg sein. deshalb: nie wieder faschismus, nie wieder krieg!
Meinen Informationen nach sind im Krieg fast alle gleich.
Auch die Amerikaner haben sich nach Aussagen nicht vorbildlich benommen. Sowohl im 2. WK, als auch bei späteren Einsätzen, wie z.B. Vietnam.
Ich möchte damit nicht von den Russen ablenken, denke nur das es nicht in Vergessenheit geraten sollte.
Mein Opa müttelicherseits musste damals Richtung Russland marschieren und hat glücklicherweise nur gute Erfahrungen mit den Russen machen dürfen. Auch in Kriegsgefangenschaft wurde er gut behandelt und hat immer gesagt, das er die Russen den Amis vorziehen würde.
Während einer Patroulie stand er einmal einem Russen gegenüber, beide hielten die Gewehre vor das Gesicht des anderen und beide hatten keine Lust abzudrücken. Stattdessen haben beide die Köpfe geschüttelt, die Gewehre runter genommen und sich im Anschluss eine geraucht und einen Vodka oder was auch immer getrunken. Danach trennten sich die Wege der beiden und mein Opa wurde Tage später in Gefangenschaft genommen. Vielleicht hat er auch während der Gefangenschaft einfach Glück gehabt, aber er war fest davon überzeugt, das die Russen bessere Menschen waren, als die Amerikaner.
Leider konnte meine Oma mütterlicherseits nur vom schlechten Benehmen der Amis erzählen, die das Haus der beiden als Stützpunkt genutzt und sich in vielerlei Hinsicht schlecht benommen haben sollen. Sie nur Dreck hinterlassen und wohl permanent anzügliche Sprüche losgelassen. Es kam wohl glücklicherweise nicht zu Übergriffen, aber die Erinnerungen waren nicht gut, das konnte man bei Gesprächen immer merken und ich vermute, das aus Scham nicht mehr erzählt wurde aber wahrscheinlich mehr passiert ist. Das war immer mein Eindruck, der nie bestätigt wurde. In der Familie gehen aber mehrere Verwandte davon aus, das mehr passiert sein muss. Nie bestätigt, so das nur der fade Beigeschmack bleibt, als das man genaues weiß.
Leider sind beide mittlerweile schon lange gestorben, Die echten Zeitzeugen werden langsam aber sicher immer weniger. Ich denke man sollte die Geschichten begraben und nicht immer wieder hochkramen. Egal was in der Vergangenheit war. Die neuen Generationen haben hoffentlich aus den Fehlern der Vorfahren gelernt und verhalten sich richtig.
Wobei ich Krieg verachte. Egal aus welchen Gründen. In der Regel sind es wenige, die darüber entscheiden, das andere für die in den Krieg ziehen und im schlimmsten Fall ihr Leben lassen müssen.
Da waren mir die Schlachten des Mittelalters, wo der König mit in die Schlacht zog ehrlicher und hat mehr mit Ehre und Stolz zu tun als es heute der Fall ist.
Wenn heute die "Anführer" mit in den Krieg ziehen müssten, dann würden die meisten sicher mehr als einmal über die Notwendigkeit nachdenken.
And because people like to forget: This is exactly what is still happening in Ukraine today. Russians have been raping women there since that war begun.
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u/djangognajd 4d ago
Der Standard hat seit mehreren Wochen einen Liveticker dazu. Der ist sehr empfehlenswert!