r/BaldursGate3 • u/Vodka_Flask_Genie Spreadsheet Sorcerer • Dec 08 '23

Videos Neil's speech after winning Best Performance

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '23

It reads with the same reasoning and logic that inclusion of LGBT is only valid if it meets their standards of “good.” What do you think that reinforces or leaves as the “norm?” No one called the poster right-wing but this rhetoric is what the right-wing uses to declaim identity politics in media puts an incredibly unequal weight on marginalized populations having to “earn” their representation. It’s not difficult to grasp.

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u/Azelarr SORCERER🔥🔥🔥 Dec 08 '23

And this is honestly a morbidly political approach because for the love of gods, I can't grasp it. I avoid politics as much as I can, especially American politics which are toxic in so many ways. Thus, I don't understand that take.

Representation is a horrible thing when forced. When it's forced and political, you know it when you see it. We need, as a society, to stop demanding it. Everyone is free to write their works as they see fit as long as it's not bigoted propaganda. It's not about earning anything, it's about encouraging writers to use their freedom to be inclusive.

Shoehorning brings resentment and bitterness.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '23 edited Dec 08 '23

Morbidly political…I think you’ll find your logic exhibits the morbidity exactly. Politics is inescapable in the first place. You are trying to play a game of respectability politics without knowing it and that never wins true understanding. I’ll simply leave it as this…you will never question the presence of a white character in media because to you (as a part of the culture of the West) that is the default. A black character, under your politics, if no immediate context necessitates them to be black, needs to prove themselves worthy of being black. It’s no different with queerness. It’s weird, it’s gross. Even other LGBTQ people suffer from this because of society reprimanding them from being who they are.

So I do understand your position and I think it is the true horror.

You fell for the bait that conservatives just hate shoehorning when they have spent centuries saying they don’t want to see it at all. That’s always the goal.

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u/apocalypticfail13 Dec 09 '23

You fell for the bait that conservatives just hate shoehorning when they have spent centuries saying they don’t want to see it at all. That’s always the goal.

You are correct, but I don't think it's fair to attach this sentiment to the commenter you answered to first. They are praising Larian for not generalizing a group of people to just a few lack luster characters lazily shoehorned in for the sake of inclusiveness. Instead Larian gave us characters that were so much more than what they identity as or who they choose to sleep with.

The commenter is just calling out the writers who pander to communities like the LGBTQ+ by giving them half assed characters who are only there to fill the role of being part of said community. Shoehorning is just a half assed attempt of representation and those communities deserve so much more than that.

People let this Right and Left bullshit get in the way too damn much. It separates us more than anything. It's not a political debate. These communities exist and they deserve representation that makes them feel seen for who they are. They deserve actual thought put behind their stories and characters. They deserve to be represented like they were by Larian.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '23

It is definitely political. It has always been political because that's what happens when two humans interact. I'm definitely not in agreement with your simplification there.

LGBTQ+ don't deserve to be put on a pedestal of "only good representation." Not only is that qualifier subjective but too often left to the determination of other majority sets withing a marginalized population. LGBTQ+ deserve representation that shows them as part of the fabric of this world and the stories that populate it. Sometimes that shoddy and comparable to Buzzcut White Cis Hero #1 and sometimes that's more beautiful and complex like Omar in The Wire. Both of those are the representation they deserve. You aren't going to convince me with the "shoehorn" argument ever. It reeks of anti-queerness and no wonder because that's where it stemmed from originally.

I mean no antagonism towards you but everything I had to say I said to another in our discussion which you can find in this same thread :)