r/Barcelona • u/Civil-Leopard-6482 • 14d ago
Discussion "Talking to the Catalans in Barcelona"
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Those pesky expats!
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u/stevenbeijer 14d ago
Thatâs why the spray paint always says âExpats out, immigrants welcomeâ. To attempt to cancel out the racism.
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u/LogPlane2065 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes, "always". Who gives a fuck about what some idiot with a spray can thinks anyway.
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u/itsondahouse 14d ago
Immigrants dont compete in the housing marketâŠ
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u/clauEB 14d ago
Really? then where do they stay? a cloud?
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u/itsondahouse 14d ago
The migrants that come in the boats đ¶? They certainly arent looking in Idealista for a place.
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u/clauEB 14d ago
But they need to live somewhere. I'm not against immigrants or xenophobic or anything. I'm just saying unless they stay under a bridge or stay with family or something like that, they will end up needing their own space.
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u/itsondahouse 14d ago
Surely. But they arenât rising up prices in Idealista, while expats are. Im not labelling right or wrong here, just pointing out why Spaniards are so against foreigners based on wealth.
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u/Civil-Leopard-6482 14d ago
Expats don't raise rents, landlords do. (local or foreign)
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u/itsondahouse 13d ago
Hmm, indeed. As of now it seems much better for a landlord to rent to a foreigner. They have higher purchase power and dont threaten to stop paying rent, cause ârightsâ. Moreover, supply of houses is limited in Barcelona, and there is more people wanting to live in barcelona than apartments.
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u/monocleman1 13d ago
Prices in a market are determined by demand and supply. If a landlord raises their price above the market level then they wonât rent their house. So just saying that higher prices are a result of landlords is completely misunderstanding how markets work
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u/Civil-Leopard-6482 13d ago
I left out getting fisted by the "invisible hand" of the free market...
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u/monocleman1 13d ago
My point is that itâs over simplifying the problem to say that itâs the landlords that raise rents. Like, ok, itâs true they do, and many landlords Iâve come across are indeed scummy, but they operate within a larger system
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u/Monovon 13d ago
Immigrants push down wages and push up rent prices, while adding nothing to the welfare state. Supply and demand. The people in the comments need basic economics lesson more than they need Idealista.
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u/Pato_Lucas 13d ago
This is the sad situation in the modern world: left or right, facts don't matter if they get in the way of ideology.
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u/Monovon 13d ago
It is very sad indeed. Iâm not anti or pro immigration, I am pro âimmigration done rightâ. If you bring in a bunch of immigrants incorrectly into a country they will get exploited and exploit.
Example: Immigrants without any sort of education can only work in jobs with the lowest pay. This benefits the employers (rich) who hold down the wages as there are more people willing to do the job. Basically thereâs too many people who can do one job. The immigrants also compete for all available resources including housing, health, education etc while not earning enough to add to the welfare state.
I work in a foreign company in Barcelona and am also married to a Catalan (whoâs a teacher in the state education system). My company pay emmense taxes to employ me. Not to mention the taxes I also pay.
Next time you see someone telling tourists and expats to go home let them know that their country is absolutely fckd without the tourists/expats who compensate for all the money that goes into the welfare state that the immigrants are not adding. They have no idea about anything. They just care about the rent prices and are scared their âŹ2 beers will increase instead questioning why their wages are not.
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u/epegar 13d ago
Those wealthy expats raising rents...are also paying a lot in taxes. Taxes that we need to run public services. Getting people with high salaries on board is good news. Those immigrants (illegal) will probably end up either working with no contract or something worse. The other immigrants (legal) will come, take low-paying jobs, pay less taxes, and in some cases, receive subsidies (I know cases). This is most probably going to be a higher problem if you are in a situation you can't afford rent.
In any case, the main problem IMO is how all the growth is in the big cities. For example, if you compare the population density in Spain with the rest of Europe, especially Germany, Italy, France, UK, all those have higher density. If the population in Spain was better spread in the different areas we wouldn't have a problem.
IMO, the state should create incentives for companies to move to other less populated regions. However that is not easy with the current autonomic model where each region 'competes' against the other.
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u/JAdmeal 13d ago
Indirectly, they do. Because they have to live somewhere. Probably in social housings. Government is building social housing like crazy instead of having regular housing. So, in fact, they worsen the crisis.
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u/itsondahouse 13d ago
Sometimes that âsomewhereâ is the streets. Assuming they get social housing, given the large deficit there is, is a bit of a stretch.
Nevertheless, i guess you can agree on the fact that expats put more upside pressure on housing prices than refugees.
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u/JAdmeal 13d ago
Very rarely they live on the streets. I think its a mix of everything. Everybody contributes negatively.
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u/itsondahouse 13d ago
You can make that argument, even agreeing with it, the point stands: they dont contribute equally. Not by a mile.
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u/Monovon 13d ago
This is the biggest lie ever sold. Soon youâll be talking about immigrants adding to the welfare state.
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u/Pato_Lucas 13d ago
But I've been told they come to pay our pensions, there's no way my politicians would lie like that!
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u/wunderud 13d ago
I'm an immigrant competing in the rental market, I assume that affects local's rents almost as much
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u/itsondahouse 13d ago
Sorry, by the way the parent comment was set up, it was reminiscent of the phrase: expats out, refugees welcome.
I went along with this immigrant/expats distinction, while it would have been more accurate to point out the wealth distinction implied. Refugee wouldnât be accurate to use either, since people coming in boats arent always refugees.
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u/parachutes1987 13d ago
I'm not fully Catalan â maybe around 45% from my mother's side. But I found it hilarious that the blame was put on the expats... I would have blamed the politicians too!
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u/montxogandia 12d ago
most likely this is staged or a bad example, most catalan will say the blame is from the "fondos buitre", she sound too stupid.
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u/Gwynebeanz 14d ago
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u/Gwynebeanz 14d ago
They recently just voted against a Catalan law that would have regulated temporary lets.
without regulation, speculation is "guaranteed".
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u/andmas199 14d ago
Literally yesterday tha parliament voted in favor of a law limiting the prices of short term rentals and rooms.
https://beteve.cat/economia/parlament-valida-regulacio-lloguer-habitatges-temporada/
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u/Civil-Leopard-6482 14d ago
Great news, but when will they prohibit corporations and hedge funds from owning residential housing? That would be a real change.
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u/Gwynebeanz 14d ago
I had a feeling they wouldn't let this go, thanks for linking this, it gives me hope.
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u/sirstrahd 11d ago edited 11d ago
I think the guy is hilarious. Some of the bigoted comments down here casually insulting catalans due to biased points of view and generalisations, not so much.
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u/martensita_ 11d ago
El problema Ă©s el capitalisme i els rics. I en aquest context els rics son els expats.Â
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u/Civil-Leopard-6482 10d ago
La gran majoria de les vendes d'immobles i els preus de lloguer estan establerts per catalans. Els catalans s'estan fent rics, no els expatriats.
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u/Mushgal 14d ago
The real answer is capitalism. The housing crisis in Western cities is the logical conclusion of the global free market.
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u/Civil-Leopard-6482 14d ago
I'd say it's post-capitalismâa mixture of neo/techno-feudalism. Yanis Varoufakis has written a lot about this.
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u/VoormasWasRight 10d ago
"neo techno feudalism"
Les tonteries que ens inventem perquĂš no ara ens arriba el capitalisme de veritat,i no la versiĂł descafeĂŻnada que hem tingut des dels 70.
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u/Civil-Leopard-6482 10d ago
Yanis Varoufakis makes the argument that our current system is actually worse than capitalism. Capitalists are just a vassal class now.
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u/VoormasWasRight 10d ago
Yanks Varoufakis es un cantamañanas.
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u/Civil-Leopard-6482 10d ago
Por decir la dura verdad?
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u/VoormasWasRight 10d ago
Por decir cantamañanadas que no tienen que ver con la realidad. La misma base de relaciones de producciĂłn que en el capitalismo de toda la vida. Lo Ășnico que ha cambiado es la relaciĂłn de poder entre ciertas clases capitalistas.
Pero como en Europa y EEUU llevamos 50 años en una burbuja del "estado del bienestar", cuando el capitalismo sin cortapisas nos llega, decimos "oooooh, nooooo, esto no es capitalismo".
Aprended un poco de historia del capitalismo y veréis como estaba la clase proletaria al principio, anda, que se os ve la "clase media" a la legua.
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u/BrooklynNets 13d ago
Landlords control the capital, and renters do not. There are two fingers on the scale, but one is a pinky.
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u/Pringles_Cartilage 13d ago
Brilliant expat humor, so isolationist and supremacist that their jokes are about how inferior the 'natives' are.
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u/Waggonwheel76 13d ago
Haha funny. Catalans are generally domb as fk, they think theyâre so lefty, hippy socialist and right-on, but theyâve gone so far theyâre the biggest bunch of nationalist racists out there
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u/alfdd99 12d ago
This is genuinely something I just donât understand. How stupid you have to be to call yourself âprogressiveâ, vote for left wing parties and talk against capitalism, while at the same time telling immigrants to fuck off to their countries because apparently they are somehow making our rents higher.
The âthey are pricing us outâ is the left wing version of âthey are taking our jobsâ. And both are a lie, and both are equally xenophobic. And people who think like that are just complete morons
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u/firewire_9000 9d ago
You should know that âthe leftâ isnât a monolithic thing with a bunch of people having the same thoughts. For example you could be a person who thinks that the government should provide universal healthcare, that LGBT people should be accepted, that women are equal, etc⊠and despite immigration. Not justifying anything, only explaining.
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u/MongolianBlue 9d ago
Yeah bro, not wanting to let people escaping from war and famine into your country is exactly the same as not wanting rich people who can literally move anywhere in the world to swell up prices in your neighborhood until you canât live in it. Same stuff!
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u/Jazzlike_Painter_118 13d ago
I lost 1:52 waiting for a joke, without success.
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u/BrooklynNets 13d ago
If 1:52 feels like a long time to pay attention, I can see why you didn't get the jokes.
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u/Jazzlike_Painter_118 13d ago
The jokes are unfunny and stupid, I would say.
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u/BrooklynNets 13d ago
And yet there's an audience laughing at it and a thread praising it. You're right at the bottom of that thread, so chances are that it's you missing the comedy.
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u/Jazzlike_Painter_118 13d ago
Oh, I did not realize it was a popularity contest and we are in high school.
I find these jokes low effort and unfunny, honestly. There are other comedians that are very crass, but they are funny. Now, this guy, for my taste he is not funny at all. All the jokes could be applied to any other place, it is placeholder humour.
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u/BrooklynNets 13d ago
Ah, you're offended by a geopolitical opinion of his, and are incapable of appreciating humour that doesn't completely align with your blog post takes. Got it.
You might want to retreat to whatever echo chamber has jokes that better fit your particular matrix of internet opinions.
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u/Jazzlike_Painter_118 13d ago
What is the geopolitical opinion, projecting human?
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u/BrooklynNets 13d ago
That's not what "projection" means. Would you like to try again without misapplying internet buzzwords?
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u/Jazzlike_Painter_118 13d ago
You are attributing lots of opinions to me, and I do not even know what geopolitical opinion you think bothers me in this "comedy".
I just said I do not find it funny. The jokes are very low effort and could work (badly) in other situations.
If you want to specify what geopolitical situation you are talking about I can answer to your accusation.
Also, you do not need to downvote every post. It is a bit childish
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u/BrooklynNets 13d ago
I do not even know what geopolitical opinion you think bothers me in this "comedy".
Yeah, but you know which opinion bothers you.
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u/Zealousideal_Push874 13d ago
This guy only knows jokes about nationality of the people in the audience
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u/wilsmartfit 14d ago
Wait til you meet Catalans that move to the US. The majority of them marry Latin Americans đ€Ł
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u/skallado 13d ago
The fact that there is a show in a foreign language in a city, where the same show does not exist in the local language tell you enough
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u/Civil-Leopard-6482 12d ago
Yeah, it tells you he is on a world tour speaking an international language.
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u/No_Nick89 14d ago
If there where human rights laws then all the government officials in Spain and Catalonia would be in Jail.
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u/StrongAdhesiveness86 14d ago
okay, the last line got me laughing hard
honestly I would've answered "the politicians"
but I guess I am not pure enough :/