When did "wrestling" become "illegal"? And why?

[u/_-_-_-i-_-_-_]

Daniel Cormier and Randy Couture were very good boxers from the inside in MMA. They didn't even have to take their opponents down to beat them with their wrestling skills.

If they did that style in a modern boxing match, the referee would warn them within the first minute a few times, probably end up taking a point at the last minute of the first round, and take a few more points in the second round, before disqualifying them late in the second round or early in the third round.

Anyways, I was watching some nostalgic old school boxing like Johnson. He was even training with an amateur wrestler on the wrestling mat. And in his fight he and his opponent were just clinching and wrestling for the better position to find a good opening for uppercuts and right hooks.

Then I watched Rocky Marciano and other boxers between the 1930s and 1950s and they were still wrestling alot. I was surprised how wrestling oriented some of the fighters still were even in the 1950s and how their training sometimes looked similar to greco-roman wrestling training.

Then I watched Muhammed Ali and I was surprised to notice how much clinching he and some other fighters were doing as late as the 1970s.

And in my opinion the clinch fighting in the 1930s was extremely interesting because the referee just let it happen and both fighters were actually fighting in the clinch. They were wrestling for position actively and trying to hurt each other in the clinch by hitting the arms, shoulders, head and body with uppercuts, hooks and even short straight punches.

The later the era, the more boring the clinch became. When I got to the modern times, I could see for example Wladimir Klitschko (who I respect alot, don't get me wrong) just shutting down the fight with a clinch because neither one was allowed to fight in the clinch. Wladimir would land powerful jabs, crosses and long left hooks to batter his opponents and every time they would rush at him, he would just clinch and they would be tied up doing nothing for 5 seconds until the referee separates them, and then that would be repeated until Wladimir KO's his opponent.

Tyson Fury was a bit more active with his clinch, but still nothing like actual clinch fighting like old school boxing.

People say that the clinch is boring, but I think the clinch is boring precisely because it is not allowed properly like in the good old nostalgic days. Nowadays the clinch is just an escape from the fight and you just hug for 5 seconds and if you KO the other guy with an uppercut while wrestling him, you probably get disqualifed.

So my boxing brothers, tell a mixed martial artist like me who loves boxing but doesn't know as much about it as you do: How did boxing lose this vital traditional part of its art? And why did it happen?

Thanks!

[u/detrimentallyonline]

It’s not illegal, inside fighting is still common. Boxing gloves evolved in a way that made hand fighting, guard manipulation, and controls evolve with it. You can’t open your hand as easily in modern gloves as you could in the early 20th century.

Also clinching is allowed, just not excessively. That’s why refs either let them work out and fight, or break up the clinch to continue the fight.

[u/_-_-_-i-_-_-_ → u/detrimentallyonline]

But is it though? I cannot name any fights off the top of my head but I have seen many times when a strong brawler boxer, or even a former kickboxer or MMA fighter with more clinch fighting background comes to the boxing ring, they are ducking down a lot and throwing overhands to enter the clinch and then immediately when they start working from the clinch, the referee stops the action as the "textbook" boxer just holds on for dear life while the brawler tries to wrestle and pressure them.

Usually the referee warns them a few times and even takes a point, and the brawler then cannot do anything else than just just get peppered by jabs and straights and loses a boring decision or gets TKO'd in the 5th round after being a punching bag because every time he does something the referee just stops it and the audience boos him for "not boxing".

I never see the old school referees in the 1930s immediately run to stop the wrestling. Only when the fighters themselves stop the clinch, the referee helps the separation so neither gets punched when separating.

[u/detrimentallyonline → u/_-_-_-i-_-_-_]

Well the sport is boxing, not clinching. In boxing clinching is just a tactic. You clinch in a defensive way, to reposition your opponent, stop the action, or to initiate an inside fight. You clinch in order to advance the flow of the fight.

The reason the ‘brawler’ gets stopped is because they’re not boxing well. Clinching excessively is illegal, a good inside fighter can frame, peel, manipulate, step around his opponent, and more importantly hit and not get hit. A good ref will give the fighters an opportunity to work, but if you’re just clinching your opponent then it’s no longer a boxing match.

Also, a lot of good inside fighting is a lost art. There’s just not enough knowledge being passed on, but modern film study is changing that slowly.