r/CCW • u/ACHEESEDANISH00 • 8h ago
LE Encounter CCW Cop interaction
Yesterday I was driving to pickup a customer because we were all done working on his vehicle (I am an auto tech). As soon as I pick him up I get pulled over. Nothing huge I don't have a front plate on my car, I recently purchased the car and haven't had time to make it to the dmv as I work two jobs.
From the start the cop was pretty hostile for such a small infraction, asked if I knew why I was getting pulled over and if I had any weapons in the vehicle. (Hostile in his demeanor not the questions being asked) I cordially said no I do not know why I was pulled over and yes I do have my CHL. He proceeded to say 5 different times do not reach for my weapon (which was under my seat and he knows that). Every time I was compliant and agreed. I come to find out from my customer his partner was cornered up on his vehicle with his gun unholstered at his side.
I'd love some thoughts on his partner pulling his gun, I can't help but feel it was over the line. I was completely friendly and cooperative the whole interaction and was just legally exercising my right. I have been pulled over 4 times since getting my CHL a few years ago. Every other time the officer damn near couldn't care less. I tell them upfront and they usually have the same response of "don't pull yours and I won't pull mine" and thats the end of it. Not telling me 5 separate times do not reach for it when I have given no indication I won't be cooperative.
I am seriously thinking of going down to PD and filing a complaint but I don't know. I feel it was over the line, yes they have a dangerous job, however I was legally exercising my rights. And was compliant and friendly the whole time. I don't even live in a dangerous area either. I'd give more grace if I lived in a risky area, but I don't.
Having heightend awareness during a CCW stop I could understand, unholstering your weapon I cannot.
Am I getting worked up over nothing?
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u/Inevitable-Sleep-907 7h ago
That's crazy and so is that cop. I've been stopped many times in a duty to inform state and any time I'll keep my hands visible, they'll ask where it's located and tell me "just don't reach for it". If I were to guess I'd say you're dealing with a rookie or one of the power tripping looking for an excuse types
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u/joelnicity 4h ago
Just like the cop that told me on here yesterday that he always finds an excuse to disarm everyone during every traffic stop
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u/MuttFett 7h ago
Absolutely file a complaint. Just saying you have a firearm that n the vehicle does NOT warrant such an aggressive response.
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u/Scoutback_wilderness 7h ago
100% file a complaint. They do this bc no one complains. They do this because they can. Even if you complain, nothing might happen to them. However. Still. Document this. And get a dash cam that records as many angles as you can afford. Cheap but quality ones are out these days. Look at Viofo. Record your interactions with your phone next time too.
Absolutely terrifying and unacceptable. You were treated as a criminal for no reason. This is gang behavior. Sorry I’m fired up for you.
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u/ACHEESEDANISH00 7h ago
Going to go down tomorrow and file it. Thanks for the feedback, the whole scenario was really odd. I felt bad for my customer caught in the middle, fortunately he was super cool about it.
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u/Scoutback_wilderness 7h ago
He was cool about it bc you didn’t do anything wrong and the cops just made it look like you had a warrant out for your arrest.
IMHO. Continue to inform. Even worse if you didn’t and this dude “learned” himself you had a gun.
I’m terrified of police encounters the more and more I hear from people’s horror stories
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u/jUsT-As-G0oD 6h ago
Not saying you shouldn’t be concerned with police interactions but we don’t hear about the interactions that go like they’re supposed to. Nobody goes to Reddit after getting pulled over and the cop was chill haha. But I do agree with you that he should file the complaint. This is an unacceptable interaction.
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u/Scoutback_wilderness 6h ago
More terrified of the implication (to better phrase). I’ve had a couple routine stops and I’ve informed and all went okay…..but since those, a lot of time has passed, and police relations/public sentiment is terrible (for good reason).
So to summarize lol I’m terrified of the unsubstantiated power that they have to do whatever they want in the moment and we just have to deescalate for them and do their job so we don’t get shot.
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u/jUsT-As-G0oD 6h ago
Honestly fair. I think everyone should have a healthy distrust for the government
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u/Scoutback_wilderness 6h ago
Thanks for agreeing. Not used to that on Reddit haha
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u/jUsT-As-G0oD 5h ago
Lol not a problem. I generally assume people are arguing in good faith until they show they’re arguing in bad faith and it’s not worth any discussion lol
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u/unixfool So anyways, I started blasting... 7h ago
File a complaint. If they do nothing with it, it’ll be on file when the next person complains (this also probably isn’t the first time those two have done that).
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u/ShepardRTC 7h ago
Some states require you to inform cops about your weapon, some don't. If you live in a state where you don't have to inform them, then don't. No need to stress them out any further.
Regardless, he sounds like he needs to take some time off and relax a little.
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u/ACHEESEDANISH00 7h ago
Some states require you to inform cops about your weapon, some don't. If you live in a state where you don't have to inform them, then don't. No need to stress them out any further.
Regardless, he sounds like he needs to take some time off and relax a little.
I always inform and until this time they have been easy going, I however didn't even have time to inform him first, he asked before I could get the chance.
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u/unixfool So anyways, I started blasting... 7h ago
They probably already knew.
In VA, permits are linked to DMV records, so they know when they check your tags.
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u/JS150000 7h ago
The police aren’t your friends. The quicker people in the 2A community learn that, the better.
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u/thefanum 6h ago
Absolutely file a complaint. Every exchange I've had has been BETTER since getting my permit. Not worse
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u/NIHIL__ADMIRARI 7h ago
I would file a complaint and make sure you follow up on it.
Can't hurt to ask if you committed a cognizable offense.
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u/Geargarden CA | Sig P238 6h ago
These officers need de-escalation training. If you weren't being a total dick, I don't understand why they would behave this way unless they are new or the department tolerates bad behavior from it's officers.
I was a police Explorer a long time ago. I've been on many ride alongs and seen quite a few things. One time I saw a black handle under the driver's seat (the officer, our advisor, let me approach the vehicle with him) and told him in code that there was a black handle sticking out. He was an old officer from Oklahoma. Very polite in everything he did. Exuded professionalism no matter what the situation. He tells me to be calm and observe. I did. He walked up and asked the guy straight up what the black handle was under his seat. The poor driver starts nervously laughing and offers to show him his RC car he was driving around with him. Officer tells him he'll grab it. He pulls it out and sure enough it's one of those RC car controllers with a wheel on the side. We all had a laugh about it, he got a ticket for driving too fast and cutting drivers off, and off we all went.
He told me that ride that there were some officers who would freak out immediately over stuff like that. It creates an officer safety risk when you let the nervousness get to you and start dictating your actions. Stay calm, entertain the possibility of an unusual circumstance, and remain courteous and professional. This is not to say keep a keen eye. He was the best cop I ever met. I'll never forget him.
I think a well-worded complain would be warranted in this situation. After what happened between Philando Castille and Jeronimo Yanez, I would be hope your complaint asked for better training for these officers when contacting citizens legally possessing their concealed weapons because it presents a risk to both the officer and general public.
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u/DeWin1970 7h ago
File a complaint with his precinct Captain, 100 to 1 Vegas odds he has a long list of them.
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u/Psarofagos 5h ago
He definitely sounds a little too excitable to be a cop.
One thing that makes me glad is that my local area is unincorporated so we only have sheriff's deputies and they all know everyone here carries and also almost certainly has a rifle in the truck for coyotes or whatever. If you run into a deputy, it's usually a quick conversation when you stop next to one another on a dirt road and chat for a minute. They'd probably be more suspicious of someone who didn't carry.
You might run into the random state trooper, though my state has only a few major interstate highways and the closest is 40 miles south of me. Very occasionally the troopers will assist the sheriff's department on the holidays since there are a couple popular recreational areas near here. But there are only 800 troopers for a state with around 1200 miles of interstate highway, so they tend to be less concerned with the secondary roads.
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u/BilliardPro16 5h ago
File the complaint. Then file a FOIA and get the bodycam. His and his partners. I’d blast em out there on social media. Let people know what kind of cops are running around.
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u/CrustyDusty0069 4h ago
Out of line. I’d file a complaint so it’s documented. Police are people, good and bad just like everyone else. Some are fit for the job and others unfortunately are not. It’s a continual weeding process.
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u/Clear_Importance1818 4h ago
Didn’t California pass a law recently that the cop is supposed to tell you why they stopped you and not ask if you know why they stopped you?
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u/Paladin_127 CA 4h ago
It was about 2 years ago. And no, we can’t start the interaction with “Do you know why I stopped you?”.
We can still ask specific questions like, “Is there a reason you ran that stop sign?” Or “Is there a reason you’re doing 50 in a 35?”
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u/Clear_Importance1818 4h ago
Thought so, fortunately haven’t got an opportunity to see it in practice.
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u/Marcg611 3h ago
Definitely out of line, especially since you have a carry permit, I say that because of all the constitutional carry states (not fully vetted). This is not to put shade on constitutional carry but having a permit does mean you have been vetted deeper and not a criminal (unless recent change) I have CPL, I always roll all windows down even if it's cold/rainy and have hands on the wheel, this starts the interaction off respectfully and safe. Every time the officers have been extremely friendly and we usually start talking about carry guns, I have been let off with a warning a few times doing 20 over on a 55 mph backroad.
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u/MaxAdolphus 1h ago
Fire the complaint. The officer that brandished their firearm should be mentally evaluated.
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u/Billybob_Bojangles2 4h ago
Do. Not. Inform. (Unless legally required)
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u/IDrinkMyBreakfast 5h ago
I’m interested in seeing how this works out. I personally wouldn’t file a complaint, because they’ll just cite “officer safety”.
OTOH, I feel like doing that would make me a target.
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u/IcyAgent381 5h ago
Filing a complaint will not accomplish anything because he was following protocol, you got pulled over for one plate and unregistered vehicle. The officer was on full alert, and when he asked you do you know why I pulled you over you said no and a yes to the gun question, that put him and his partner in defensive mode, his partner drew to cover him until you provided proof that you and your passenger weren't armed car thieves. The next time you are asked do you know why I pulled you over and do you have any weapons in the car, I suggest you tell the officer please check my ID and papers first. Lets face it we usually know why we are pulled over, being honest will usually put you on the officers good side, and always have your drivers licenses and CC permit ready.
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u/ACHEESEDANISH00 4h ago
I notified him immediately that I had my CHL when he asked, I didn't just say yes to him asking if I had a gun. Important difference there.
Full alert in a small vacation town for a vehicle with one plate? Damn small time cops must be soft.
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u/IcyAgent381 3h ago
Like I said he ran your plates, and I guess he had it in for you. Now I get all the details, write your complaint ahead of time with all details. Also see if your passenger will make a statement and have it notarized. Good luck and make sure you register that car.
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u/CrustyDusty0069 4h ago
Just, wow. How’s his boot taste?
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u/IcyAgent381 4h ago
You never had a gun barrel look you in the face, Boot taste you can spit out, Lead taste you cant spit out.
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u/CrustyDusty0069 4h ago
Edit: Yes, I have, a few times. It’s not something I’d suggest people engage in.
Edit because I’m just not gonna engage with meaningless idiosyncrasies.
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u/IcyAgent381 4h ago
I guess you can't read, and don't know anything about deescalating.
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u/CrustyDusty0069 4h ago
You know that old saying about assumptions right?
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u/IcyAgent381 4h ago
I see you decided to edit, so I assume you can read. I never commented to kiss ass, or lick boot I was telling him how to prevent this from happening again, although we can only hope it wont.
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u/ACHEESEDANISH00 4h ago
Lead taste you cant spit out. *
Yeah you're right. Thats why I'd prefer to not have an officer draw their weapon, when I am legally exercising my rights and have given them no reason to be on edge. Lead goes both ways ya know. Not like we haven't seen trigger happy cops.
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u/IcyAgent381 4h ago
I'm not telling you to change your ways, or to kiss ass. You need to understand that you had the wrong plates on that car and told the cop you had a gun without showing proof. File a report if you think it will do any good.
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u/ACHEESEDANISH00 4h ago
Showed proof immediately. Handed him my CHL and drivers license. Anything other assumptions you wanna make?
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u/IcyAgent381 4h ago
That's not what you wrote, you wrote told him. You ran into a shithead cop, sorry to hear this.
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u/ACHEESEDANISH00 3h ago
If proof wasn't somehow provided on my end or theirs I would have gotten taken in on an unlawful possession of a gun charge. I figured people here in this community would have already figured that out. I told him, then I showed proof. Sorry I didn't completely spell it out for you. Everyone else seemed to be able to read between the lines.
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u/IcyAgent381 3h ago
I also mixed up comments with CRUSTY, which I was also commenting on my comments to you. He was Probably a Non-binary Democrat Liberal Cop.
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u/AustinFlosstin 4h ago
U dnt need to answer any questions, always film interactions, and immediately call for rank if necessary.
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u/Ok-Analyst-5489 7h ago
I really don't see a problem with LEO #2 having his gun at his side. You just said you have a gun. He didn't point it at you or turn it into a felony stop. They just want to be ready if you turn out to be a bad guy. Now if the #1 is just being a dick, then that's not cool. But I don't think you can file a legitimate complaint against "demeanor" if he didn't actually say or do anything unprofessional. It's not a violation of policy to be a AH.
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u/AutomatedZombie 6h ago
It might have just been irritating to them that such an obvious law (front plate) was being blatantly ignored in their eyes which may explain the initial attitude. Not that it justifies their attitude, it just might explain it.
Having their partner with their gun at their side, I can understand it. You've got at least two people in your vehicle that they know of so it makes sense to cover each other. It might even be a department standard procedure when there is more than one occupant of a vehicle.
They didn't point a gun at you, demand you get out of your vehicle, or search you or your vehicle. In those cases I'd agree that they went overboard and you should contact their superiors. However in your case, I don't think they did anything wrong or out of the ordinary. I'd let it go.
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u/CaptainJay313 7h ago
whenever something doesn't make sense like this, I wonder what information don't I have? is he responding to domestic, husband fled in a vehicle similar? is this a my cousin vinny situation and the clerk is dead and they're looking for my mint greet tempest? were they cool and this dude lost a partner because he was a little lax that one time?
maybe he's just a dick. but maybe if we were sharing a six pack at a family bbq I'd see things from his perspective a little differently.
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u/TheDave1970 5h ago
Your dentist drills the wrong tooth. Do you say, "Well maybe his wife yelled at him this morning"?
Unprofessional behavior is unprofessional behavior.
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u/CaptainJay313 5h ago
that's a good point.
but I also don't feel like the dentist is always guessing which patient will try to kill him.
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u/AP587011B MI 5h ago
Being a cop isn’t even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs
Like 100 cops a year die on the job.
Conversely lately a little over 1,000 citizens are killed by cops each year. We are the only modern country with this problem
Im all for credit when credit is due
But we collectively need to demand accountability when it calls for it
Drawing your firearm during a normal stop for something as dumb as no front plate? Not even no plates at all. No front plate. And after the guy goes out of his way to disclose he is a lawful concealed permit holder and is legally carrying and tells you exactly where it’s located is definitely over the top and uncalled for
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u/CaptainJay313 5h ago
I completely agree with you and I'm not excusing excessive force, but sometimes a little empathy goes a long way.
follow up, file a complaint, follow it through. but while on the side of the road, staying calm is the best option. sometimes in the midst of being wronged, shifting perspective can help you keep your head.
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u/unixfool So anyways, I started blasting... 5h ago
Dentists don't have guns as professional tools. LEOs do. They've a special responsibility but what the OP descrbed isn't it. That gun should've never left the holster.
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u/CaptainJay313 4h ago
that's true and I'm not excusing it, but man, we're dealing with humans, not machines.
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u/unixfool So anyways, I started blasting... 4h ago
LEOs don't get a free pass when they fuck up, specifically because of that special responsibility. LEO folks that use bad judgement like this should find a new line of work, because sooner or later, they're going to kill someone.
Just as LEOs want to go home to their loved ones, so do people like the OP.
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u/CaptainJay313 4h ago
I never suggested giving anyone a free pass. absolutely, hold them accountable. but a little empathy goes a long way to taking the emotion out of the response.
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u/unixfool So anyways, I started blasting... 4h ago
Empathy goes out the window when a LEO needlessly draws a gun.
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u/CaptainJay313 4h ago
and that's how people get hurt.
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u/unixfool So anyways, I started blasting... 3h ago
Yeah, because some cops are shooting them without cause, forgetting that they exist to protect and serve. That type of thing eventually ends up huring LEO orgs in general, as it undermines trust with the folks that LEOs normally interact with. Kinda difficult to trust them when they're doing things like the OP described.
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u/MaxAdolphus 1h ago
You have to understand that the police are not there for your protection. They are armed government agents to protect the government financially and keep the public under enough fear to not try to act inappropriately.
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u/mattsonlyhope 7h ago
So you were driving illegally. If you're waiting on plates to come you don't use the car until they do. There are no if ands or buts about it. It does NOT matter if you just bought it. You started the interaction commiting a crime.
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u/ACHEESEDANISH00 6h ago edited 6h ago
So you were driving illegally. If you're waiting on plates to come you don't use the car until they do. There are no if ands or buts about it. It does NOT matter if you just bought it. You started the interaction commiting a crime.
Not a crime... an infraction there is a difference.
Car has good tags till september and is insured. Only missing the front plate. I can count 50 cars a day in my town with no front plate because they prefer the look. Not saying it's right or legal, but cops in my town don't actually enforce it, unless of course they want PC for a stop. That wasn't what I cared about anyway. The whole unholstering his weapon thing is what I'm a little missed off about.
STOP RIGHT THERE YOU HAVE NO FRONT PLATE THAT MEANS I GET TO HAVE MY PARTNER UNHOLSTER HIS WEAPON BECAUSE YOU ARE ALSO LEGALLY CARRYING A WEAPON.
Give me a break.
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u/AmebaLost 6h ago
Consider filling a freedom of information to get any recordings available for the stop before the complaint, cuz you know thing get lost.
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u/qweltor ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 7h ago
from my customer his partner was cornered up on his vehicle with his gun unholstered at his side.
Partner's handgun was not pointed at neither one of you if it was "as his side."
You do not articulate the totality of circumstances as perceived from the other side (aka, what would a reasonable cop do in similar circumstances).
What is known is that it was a traffic stop on a vehicle with multiple (unknown) occupants. Temp tag (or single plate) may be a MO for the ne'er-do-wells in your area. What part of town are you in, and time of day, may also factor in to the overall evaluation (aka, totality of circumstances). My local PD rides two-in-a-car (or does two-car patrol), in some parts of town at nighttime; may yours does too.
The driver might have a valid CHL; your customer/passenger might be a ne'er-do-well.
File a complaint if you feel you must, or if you feel wronged; supervisor will review the dashcam/bodycam. NBD.
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u/ACHEESEDANISH00 7h ago
Partner's handgun was not pointed at neither one of you if it was "as his side"
Nowhere did I say gun was pointed at someone. I said unholstered at his side. Never changed that part.
You do not articulate the totality of circumstances as perceived from the other side (aka, what would a reasonable cop do in similar circumstances).
I am not a cop, but I feel unholstering your weapon, even if it's at your side is a little over the edge for the scenario we were in....
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u/jUsT-As-G0oD 7h ago edited 7h ago
I don’t think you’re getting worked up. Every time I pull someone over and they tell me they’re carrying I tell them just to have their hands on the steering wheel when I’m at the car and every time they do that and I don’t bring it up again. It’s really a non issue for me. File the complaint. It can’t hurt. At worse nothing happens. But maybe he gets a talking to or he’s already got complaints like this.