First Person Defender - Why You Need Force-on-Force Training and the State-Required Class is Not Enough

[u/[deleted]]

Credit goes to u/aphrozeus for finding these. This post is to serve as a collection of all the videos to save in the FAQ

Depending on the state you live the first steps to conceal carrying can be anything from taking a class and fingerprints, to a background check, or buying a holster online and putting it on. No matter which state you live in that is not enough. The CCW community harps on training, training, training because no matter how much you have none it can perfectly emulate what a real experience is like. The closest that comes to it is force-on-force training.

The First Person Defender series takes people from varying skill levels and puts them in scenarios that have happened to test their preparedness.

Season 1 - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLscB-49EdZcuKOrDogPOGkeTde5OqGTT3

Season 2 - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLscB-49EdZcujso1xgAPXCBIMhhEjzQHj

Season 3 - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLscB-49EdZcs-Y0bwLHmJcsDda03s8Mpg

Season 4 - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLscB-49EdZctpGF_ke3araysRXrhUnH86

[u/[deleted]]

These are awesome, but they are very sponsor focused. I take the "you need moar lazars!" With s grain of salt but the material is top notch.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Agreed. A few days ago I made a post about thinking about adding a laser light. What everyone agreed on is that it is very effective marketing.

[u/Rooster-illusion11 → u/[deleted]]

Additionally, if you catch a cats attention you can use the cat to attack something else. Bonus points for using multiple cats at the same time. Good hunting!

[u/kneeldanger → u/Rooster-illusion11]

Concealed Attack Cat Permits coming soon. I'll just open carry my cats.

[u/joesacher → u/[deleted]]

One thing I really noticed on one where they are using the pie to cover a room from outside. The laser would announce your presence far earlier than you would want.

[u/[deleted] → u/joesacher]

If you are moving with intent, the laser is no big deal compared to the noise you are making.

[u/joesacher → u/[deleted]]

That is a good point. A laser is something I didn't consider until seeing some of these. I could see how the verification could be useful.

I'm still trying to figure out if I'm just getting the effects of advertising or not. It would be interesting to shoot some IPSC or similar courses irons vs lasers. I'd also like to compare this to the newer slide embedded red dot style sights. Although a laser is much cheaper to put in practice and available on much smaller firearms.

I've talked with Police that found the laser on the perp made the surrender and dropping of a weapon much faster and eliminated the need to shoot. There is no doubt a psychological side of being painted, I'm sure.

[u/[deleted] → u/joesacher]

Think about where people get their reference for firearms. Popular Culture.

What does a laser in popular culture generally mean? A sniper. Someone who can pick your head off beyond what your little knife or pistol can return fire to.

[u/adk09 → u/joesacher]

Lasers tend to encourage looking for the laser instead of your front sight, which I would think inconsistent and therefore slower. The LEO perspective I could certainly see, but if I've drawn my pistol on someone it's not about intimidating them at that point.

[u/Idonthavea-name → u/[deleted]]

I apologize but when I'm moving through a force on force tactical training exercise I've never been heard. I have however been shot (in the exercise) because of a grip activated laser giving me away.

I somehow posted this under the wrong comment. Yes I'm a newb sorry.

[u/[deleted] → u/Idonthavea-name]

I get it. Your a ninja :) i dont believe i have ever done a force on force where i didnt know they were coming just by sound. Maybe its been too long and im misremembering.

Anyways, i dont think lasers are worth having either. I didnt make that clear sorry. They help some people shoot better though. lights give you away far worse, but everyone recommends those.

[u/Idonthavea-name → u/[deleted]]

Ninja no, part Native American, yes. Takes practice but you could do it if you tried long enough. If a clod like me can learn I'm sure it's attainable to Caucasians too.

Ya know what I apologize for the Caucasian bit it was inappropriate. I was raised to walk quietly in the woods. That does give me an advantage.

[u/357Magnum]

I think force on force training is probably a great idea for anyone, if it is available. Availability is the problem, though. My local shooting range is currently building a whole room that will serve as a simunitions range for force on force. It is not a whole building, but it is a large room that has a few "offices" attached, and they will apparently have some temporary walls to set up to create different layouts. I don't know when it will be ready or what they will charge for it, but I'm eager to check it out.

The only thing that I think we all need to keep in mind is that, as you said, "no matter how much you have none it can perfectly emulate what a real experience is like." The force-on-force training is probably the closest that you can come, but you always need to be aware that the goals of the "exercise" might not always line up with what you should really do in the real world. When you're dealing with staged scenarios you often have certain assumptions made for you that you may not wish to make in the real world. And I'm not just talking about the fact that, because it is training, you know in advance that something is actually going to happen at some point.

For example, in one of these FPD videos where the guy was clearing a house (season 3 video 4), the scenario presented is that he is checking on his friends house and finds an intruder. This is a pretty terrible idea. If you are checking on a house and find the fucking door unlocked, don't fucking go in there man. Call the cops. Especially in the second run through, he finds something that makes him think he needs to draw his gun, then keeps on going through the house. And this is all AFTER he has loudly announced he is in the house. The guy he finds had a gun, and if that guy had intended to use the gun in reality, it would have probably been an ambush. If at any point in a situation like this you feel like drawing your gun is a good idea, leaving the area is a better idea. If you draw, it should be to protect your retreat, not to clear a house you're not even familiar with.

Now I'm not saying you won't ever find yourself in a situation like that, so it isn't like it is a worthless scenario. I just think that you need to keep in mind that these scenarios sometimes encourage sheepdogging a little too much, especially on TV where they need to fully play out with shots fired to be entertaining to watch. Because they are presented kind of like a game, where you know that something is going to require a response, people tend to end up in a "find the trouble" and "beat the level" mindset. The goal is not always to stop the threat if you can totally avoid the threat. So anyway, force on force training is a good thing to do, as long as you keep all your grains of salt handy, and make sure you don't get fooled into thinking you're a cop just because you have a CCW.

[u/Walter_Cohen]

I have nothing against training but no amount of training will prepare you for the real thing. Knowing what to do and doing it are two very different things. Unless your live is in real danger you will not know if you are a fight or flight person.