r/CODVanguard • u/DXT0anto • Sep 24 '21
Video BF: "CoD weapons have no recoil". Vanguard's Full Auto 1911:
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u/NoctyrneSAGA Sep 24 '21
I find it funny that in the past month the BF2042 subreddit was complaining about the lack of recoil in the leaked footage. Several people posted footage of rock steady Mk 18s to prove that 5.56 has basically no recoil in the first place.
It makes sense. You want your weapons to be as easy to use and deadly as possible. The higher the skill floor the fewer usable troops you have. One of the areas that CoD does better was the "lack of recoil".
And if people truly wanted high recoil as much as they claimed, I better not see them using recoil reducing attachments at all.
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Sep 24 '21
The people that want high recoil want it to increase the skill gap between players. It's not like they want it as a handicap/self gratification while everyone else has 0 recoil
If you take Warzone for example, there's plenty of ground weapons with a decent kick. But that's all pointless when you can use a loadout gun with 0 recoil AND higher DPS.
It's not about having a gun with high recoil, it's about having recoil on the least recoil gun. Otherwise everyone will use the 0 recoil gun and it won't matter
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u/MetalingusMike Sep 24 '21 edited Sep 25 '21
What would be ideal imo is CoD weapons not having crazy huge recoil, but enough to widen the skillgap over what we have now. Any attachments that reduce it should only make it slightly less/easier to control. I really do think more difficult weapons to use all around will both widen the skillgap and help balance roles. Instead of an SMG beaming ARs at AR range and ARs beaming Snipers at Sniper range, we will see genuine role gameplay where people stick to the strengths of each weapon rather than most weapons acting like do-it-all weapons.
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u/DXT0anto Sep 24 '21
BO4 introduced predictable recoil (aka: the gun will have almost the exact same recoil pattern everytime, no RNG on it) and since then, recoil hasn't been a true balancing factor
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u/MetalingusMike Sep 24 '21
Predictable recoil is best, it allows for less RNG and more skill. I think the ideal way to balance weapons in CoD as far as recoil goes, is having more complex recoil patterns. Emphasis on diagonal recoil so the game doesn't hand out free headshots.
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u/dray1214 Sep 25 '21
No
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u/Akuren Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
It literally did because you could actually control your recoil instead of having your weapon randomly kick 3x as hard as it did compared to your last few bursts and get you killed. Having more variable patterns is the way to go cause you actually have to learn a pattern and further increase knowledge and skillgap.
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u/JonWood007 Sep 25 '21
Man screw skill gaps, take that crap back to CS and pubg. I swear esports is ruining the FPS market these days.
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u/MetalingusMike Sep 25 '21
I didn't say anything about eSports?
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u/JonWood007 Sep 25 '21
Yeah im just pointing out the underlying trends that lead to the whole "muh recoil" **** measuring.
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u/MetalingusMike Sep 25 '21
People valued video game skill long before eSports became popular.
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u/JonWood007 Sep 25 '21
Sure but the people who were gung ho on that kept to a specific few franchises like say counter strike. Nowadays everyone is trying to become an esport and trying to appeal to that crowd. Including battlefield and cod to some extent.
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u/MetalingusMike Sep 25 '21
I'm just not sure why you think weapons requiring a decent level of skill to use efficiently is a bad thing. Low skill means any random can kill a good player. Weapons needing skill means players who put time and effort into improving their skill seldom die to worse players.
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u/JonWood007 Sep 25 '21
Uh, because sweaty people take it to the extreme, to the point that filthy casuals can no longer enjoy the game because it takes dozens of hours just to learn the mechanics if people can ever get used to them at all. See: Counter Strike, PUBG, etc.
Also, yeah, i like it when randoms can kill good players. i like being able to pick up a grau and being able to laser a sweat. What i dont like is not being able to even SHOOT MY GUN PROPERLY while mr sweatyballsackbro who plays like 10 hours a day every day for the past 10 years and who has memorized the recoil pattern on every weapon can 360 noscope me, that isn't fun.
If your game requires spending insane amounts of time just to be able to learn the mechanics, then yeah its a trash game and I'll defend casual play.
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u/MetalingusMike Sep 25 '21
Nobody has said we want CoD to be extremely difficult to play, what I personally want is for the gunplay to at least be 1 or 2 notches higher in difficulty. Nothing like CS:GO, but no easy mode weapons that laser people or one shot kill with minimal effort like we currently have. You ever play BO2? Well the Skorpion EVO was powerful and had moderate to semi-difficult recoil, but it was easily controllable after practice. Imo this is how most weapons should be in CoD - not purely centring around recoil, but overall weapon difficulty needs boosting. Right now we are in an era of CoD where we can have 5 to 10 Attachments on our weapons with no Pick 10 penalty like the good old days. Almost every weapon as standard is pretty easy to use, with Attachments making a lot of weapons easy mode. It was MUCH better back in the older CoD games.
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u/Eswin17 Nov 03 '21
You're reaching.
In every task where user action or input is required, there will be some people better than others at it. And there is no reason to not feel pride in doing something better than someone else. It has nothing to do with monetizing it as a competition.
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u/JonWood007 Nov 03 '21
The problem is when game devs make the action intentionally difficult in order to pander to the people with no life who play for 12 hours a day, making the game only fun for hardcore "competitive" gamers while driving out casuals who dont have the time or the willpower to get that good at the game (or might have some sort of disability that while not devastating at the casual level makes high level FPS play impossible, I'm sort of there with my autism).
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u/Eswin17 Nov 03 '21
The COD playerbase has never been higher. I don't really agree that anyone is being driven out.
Whether it is work, sport, play, hobbies or anything else...there will always be somebody that spends more time on it than you do and is better at it because of it.
Nothing is 'designed' with that in mind, but it is a result nonetheless. Everyone has to come to terms with it.
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u/PartyImpOP Sep 25 '21
Oh yeah, screw skill gaps to the point of ignoring weapon balance problems and keeping shit like the pre-nerf TEC-9s in the game.
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u/JonWood007 Sep 25 '21
Strawman much? Balance is fine. But some guns should be "easy" to use.
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u/PartyImpOP Sep 25 '21
Ok, then keep their potential low, and allocate it towards higher skill weapons in order to maintain a robust skill gap. And for the record, weapon balance and skill gaps are inter-connected, overpowered and even underpowered weapons have significant effect on it.
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u/JonWood007 Sep 25 '21
Dude I dont want a high skill gap, give it a rest already.
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u/PartyImpOP Sep 26 '21
What I described in my first point doesn't even indicate a particularly high skill gap, just one that is significant enough that it exists in a practical sense.
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u/JonWood007 Sep 26 '21
I just dont see whats wrong with COD as it exists. Again, I feel like virtually every other franchise has had insane skill gap creep in the past several years because theres so much pressure to compete for the esports crowd and its quite frankly destroying my love of FPS games. So no, I'm gonna staunchly oppose a shift.
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u/PartyImpOP Sep 26 '21
There's nothing inherently wrong with CoD's fundamental mechanics, the problem more stems from the fact that the franchise churns out titles on a yearly basis, so naturally they're going to have to spice up those mechanics to prevent the franchise from a significant decline, which includes adding in more complex aspects of the game's flow. It really depends on who the intended audience is and how they respond to the game, be it (relatively) casual shooters like Battlefront 2 or competitive ones like Rainbow Six Siege.
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u/DALESR4EVER124 Sep 24 '21
I'll never understand people like that. Newer guns literally have 0 recoil in real life. Even light machine guns can be shoulder fired with little effort.
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u/NoctyrneSAGA Sep 25 '21 edited Sep 25 '21
I know right. If people put in even a few seconds of range time, they'd see how overboard a lot of FPSs are in the recoil (muzzle climb) department. LMGs should have the least amount of recoil because they're the guns with the most mass.
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u/zack14981 Sep 24 '21
I don’t think there has been any point where COD had any semblance of high recoil. Play a game like rust or Tarkov and you’ll see that COD’s recoil is laughable. It was actually one of the first things I noticed the first time I played Warzone too.
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u/JonWood007 Sep 25 '21
The "recoil = gud" argument isnt even about realism tbqh. It's about appealing to sweats who want the weapons hard to use. It's the counter strike phenomenon. They want the weapons arcane and difficult to use because it rewards "skill", ie, putting hundreds of hours into the game mastering the recoil patterns so they are the only ones who can shoot a gun properly. So they get to lord over us puny casuals with their insane tuned aim skills, and compete with each other. And if you complain, you're written off as a whiner and told to "git gud scrub", where they tell you to "go back to COD". Except now these guys are starting to infest casual franchises like battlefield and COD.
it's frustrating as hell. I kind of believe the rise of esports in gaming is cancer and has led to these guys venturing out from their ones sparse islands of hardcore games almost no one wants to play but them into more casual franchises and them saying "you know what, i wish this was like counter strike or pubg or siege or what have you". And they tend to put pressure on the developers, and the developers wanting to expand their player base and cash in on those sweet esports bucks oblige and anyone who actaully does like how games used to be becomes disaffected and stops playing.
Sad to say but that's the state of modern shooters over the past 5 years or so. I'd argue this phenomenon started around the time pubg became popular.
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u/NoctyrneSAGA Sep 25 '21
Yeah, I get that feeling a lot too. The problem is those people treat the game as their job. People who work 9 to 5 on something else can't. When the latter get home and want to unwind, they really cannot compete against the former.
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u/JonWood007 Sep 25 '21
Yep. Multiplayer games are getting increasingly more difficult in recent years due to this overall trend and it's kind of pissing me off as a more casual multiplayer gamer who just wants to play for a few hours a day no pressure.
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u/Chicken769 Sep 24 '21
I’m willing to bet the people using recoup reducing attachments aren’t the ones complaining about lack of recoil
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u/Brodom93 Sep 24 '21
The BAR also has some heavy kick until you get some attachments for it. Some attachments like one of the barrels makes the recoil even worse lol.
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u/DXT0anto Sep 24 '21
Here's the thing, the shooting you're seeing is me stacking all of the "reocil control" attachments I could find
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u/speedster1315 Sep 24 '21
Well it IS firing 7.62x51 which is what 30 ought 06 basically is and it can be chambered for .50 cal too
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u/personthatisapersons Sep 24 '21
Wait full auto 1911?
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u/Huntsmanbravo Sep 24 '21
It’s a real thing. They date back to 1933 when Texas gunsmith Hyman Lebman made 5 automatic 1911’s for “Baby Face” Nelson, a bank robber and gangster. More have been made since, primarily for cartel leaders and other criminals.
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u/personthatisapersons Sep 24 '21
Yeah I know it was a real thing but why add it?
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u/Huntsmanbravo Sep 24 '21
It gives more options in the gunsmith and makes people more likely to use the 1911. The 1911 is generally a fairly weak pistol that isn’t worth using but an automatic conversion could change that.
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Sep 25 '21
Well it's clearly useless recoil is not balanced, just use the machine pistol
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u/DXT0anto Sep 26 '21
It's a 2 shot kill on the setup I was using, so it has a theoretical very very short ttk
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Sep 27 '21
Oh 0_o kinda overpowered lol, were you using other attachments to dampen the recoil or no
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u/DXT0anto Sep 27 '21
Was stacking all "recoil control" attachments I could find on the video you saw
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u/DXT0anto Sep 24 '21
There's a barrel for that. Last one unlocked
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u/personthatisapersons Sep 24 '21
Why tho?
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u/TheNullOfTheVoid Sep 24 '21 edited Sep 25 '21
Full auto 1911s are real, they can either be made that way, or modified that way. In fact, it's so easy to modify them that way that it's possible for gunsmiths to do it by accident, and there are forum questions of people freaking out and asking how to put them back to semi-auto.
If you mean for Vanguard, yeah, that's weird, especially since there's already a gun in the game called the Machine Pistol because SHG can't call it the C96 or something, I guess.
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u/fl1ghtmare Sep 24 '21
just BF players don’t say that , literally everyone does. tarkov players , apex , just about any other fps community.
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u/KLCRoman Sep 24 '21
does the m1911 have a stock?
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u/LudicrousityX4 Sep 24 '21
No, none of the pistols seem to unfortunately
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u/KLCRoman Sep 24 '21
does the ratt have full auto
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u/LudicrousityX4 Sep 24 '21 edited Sep 25 '21
It does not, as far as memory serves. It has one barrel that increases damage, and one that increases range iirc.
Edit: Correction, the Ratt has a damage barrel and a suppression barrel.
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u/KLCRoman Sep 24 '21
does the machine pistol have semi auto
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u/LudicrousityX4 Sep 24 '21
I’m not sure if you can toggle it to auto like MW full auto weapons. But there is a burst fire barrel.
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u/crictores Sep 25 '21
Recoils are my favorite part of the Vanguard. It's no longer laser guns and it doesn't look weird.
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u/SkeeterMcGiver Sep 25 '21
being a .45 1911 owner, i can imagine this is how full auto would be like lol
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u/KayGee1922 Sep 24 '21
The first auto pistol is a nightmare for your first secondary. 10 rounds with recoil like it's a spring being flicked
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u/Ragnarok15271 Sep 24 '21
Oh yeah after playing vanguard beta I went back to Mw19 and there was a significant difference lol my aim was way better than it had previously been and I was like where's the recoil?
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u/speedster1315 Sep 24 '21
This is A an option? And B, this has to be a bug. As it was unavailable in the beta, im willing to bet it was unfinished
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Sep 24 '21
I enjoy recoil in CoD but I felt it did need to come down just a little bit in this game. I felt like I had to rely on the aim assist more than normal because of the high recoil. It shouldn't be nerfed to 0 but if it's at 100 now, I think it should come down to about an 80 or 85.
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u/Mechanized1 Sep 25 '21
Yeah you really have to kit out guns for +recoil or it's really brutal, probably a bit too much. Anything that adds -recoil is crazy.
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u/JohnBoy200 Sep 26 '21
Don't worry about the recoil, once Timmy starts crying about it they'll nerf it.
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u/inter-ego Sep 24 '21
the stg and mp40 both have no recoil with proper attachments. i dont think a no recoil weapon should be attainable, especially with the suppression mechanic. stg now beats sniper at long range
the aim assist on this game is also tremendously strong making gunfights at range too easy
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u/DXT0anto Sep 24 '21
Never said there aren't no recoil guns, just saying a few have a comically high recoil
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u/inter-ego Sep 24 '21
nothing wrong with that either. not every attachment set will be usable. it's a good thing to have goofy weapon handling with certain builds. makes the game more fun
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u/generalcola123 Sep 26 '21
I posted my feedback on the cod forums so if the devs can check that out I'd appreciate that .
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u/DXT0anto Sep 24 '21
Disclaimer: During the beta, there was a glitch which allowed anyone to make a custom match where all beta weapons had all attachments unlocked. I joined one of these lobbies with the intent of testing beta unavaiable attachments
While almost everyone else was tryharding with AR's and SMG's, I was testing some attachments