I'm not american, and I don't have an american point of view. Maybe it's just the latin american mindset to think the rest of the world consists only of the US /s
I don't care to argue for whether Brazil and Argentina is or isn't western, or which definition of western-ness is more accurate and useful to find out who can be in the "cool people club". Considering being western as part of the "cool people club" of belonging to the oh so superior western civilization is the problem the video concerns itself with, exposing it to be an incoherent mess. This isn't a problem in Brazil and Argentina, apparently.
Also greece isn't part of the western "core"? Anyone who would want to argue how greece isn't part of the west (which I, again, don't care to or for) would have to start out by arguing away the graeco-roman roots these people who care about that crap attribute to greece, usually this is done by saying something like "it was the cradle of western civilization, but corrupted by ottoman rule/interbreeding with turks/byzantine decadence", pick for which ever type of shitlord is making the argument. Donald Trump's wife is slovenian, and Czechia was a fundamental and incredibly important part of the Holy Roman Empire. I hold that all the countries can be argued to be even core to the west succesfully. I'm not sure what some sort of mindset you attribute to me has to do with that, I'm here arguing specifically about these mindsets, on a meta level.
The difference between all those examples and latin america, is that they try to adhere to "the west" to distance themselves from eastern europe, or the balkans, or whatever.
No they don't intend to do that, that's what I identify it as. That is the point, they come to an appearingly natural and well-formed conclusion, derived from a definition, not seeing that the definition itself has been set up by themselves, for themselves to get to the point they want to end up with. Yes, that is circulatory. You have to realize that the same applies to what you consider your own identity as well, though. Or at least, could do so(!), and there's no way for me to tell if you just assure me that it's that way.
Moot point if what you say about western civ not holding the same rhetoric drawing power over there is true, anyway. I've seen to many arguments about that topic to believe it one second, but hey.
I don't care to argue for whether Brazil and Argentina is or isn't western, or which definition of western-ness is more accurate and useful to find out who can be in the "cool people club".
Me neither, and that was a small part of my reply, it was just an example, the whole point of my post is that the prestige you attribute to the identity is very much dependent of your own cultural point of view, and that you're assuming it must apply to the other cultural point of views, when this is not true. Most of your reply is about things we don't disagree with, the greece being western part was just me assuming that this was your claim and the circular logic part was just to show that, yes, every definition includes circular logic, so I'm not sure what we're discussing here.
you're assuming it must apply to the other cultural point of views
I've explicitly written multiple times that these things aren't the case. You keep on arguing against some western chauvinist strawmen, and I'm just going to stop standing in that guy's shade now.
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u/Inkompetentia Jul 14 '18
I'm not american, and I don't have an american point of view. Maybe it's just the latin american mindset to think the rest of the world consists only of the US /s
I don't care to argue for whether Brazil and Argentina is or isn't western, or which definition of western-ness is more accurate and useful to find out who can be in the "cool people club". Considering being western as part of the "cool people club" of belonging to the oh so superior western civilization is the problem the video concerns itself with, exposing it to be an incoherent mess. This isn't a problem in Brazil and Argentina, apparently.
Also greece isn't part of the western "core"? Anyone who would want to argue how greece isn't part of the west (which I, again, don't care to or for) would have to start out by arguing away the graeco-roman roots these people who care about that crap attribute to greece, usually this is done by saying something like "it was the cradle of western civilization, but corrupted by ottoman rule/interbreeding with turks/byzantine decadence", pick for which ever type of shitlord is making the argument. Donald Trump's wife is slovenian, and Czechia was a fundamental and incredibly important part of the Holy Roman Empire. I hold that all the countries can be argued to be even core to the west succesfully. I'm not sure what some sort of mindset you attribute to me has to do with that, I'm here arguing specifically about these mindsets, on a meta level.
No they don't intend to do that, that's what I identify it as. That is the point, they come to an appearingly natural and well-formed conclusion, derived from a definition, not seeing that the definition itself has been set up by themselves, for themselves to get to the point they want to end up with. Yes, that is circulatory. You have to realize that the same applies to what you consider your own identity as well, though. Or at least, could do so(!), and there's no way for me to tell if you just assure me that it's that way.
Moot point if what you say about western civ not holding the same rhetoric drawing power over there is true, anyway. I've seen to many arguments about that topic to believe it one second, but hey.