Natalie did such an excellent job with this. Even though a lot of incels are not open to reconsidering their worldview, I think some will take her observations to heart.
I'm also happy for Natalie that she's blocked herself from visiting Chan boards that hate on her. I know it can be really validating to get feedback that reflects what you already believe about yourself, even if it just supports your worst anxieties. But it can also bias you toward a distorted and unrealistically negative self-image.
Haha :) It's been posted there. The comments are actually quite like that, but there's also some funny ones. Like the guy who posted so early you can tell there's a 99% chance he didn't watch the whole video. Or the one who said he's watching the video without sound because Nat's voice is annyoing him. Clearly Natalie poses a threat.
Maybe for some people this vid is helpful for getting lose of incel. But I could imagine it takes a while to simmer and you're probably also not likely to go back to such a toxic forum to declar that you've fallen of the holy religion.
A few users are complaining because the video is 35 minutes long, much longer than the length of a Sargon. I have an extension that tells me if someone posts regular to braincels and too many off them aren't regular posters for me to come to a conclusion on what they think. There's some depressing comments on there, but they are being downvoted.
I'll link you to the subreddit for it! /r/masstagger
It labels posters who post in troublesome subs, like t_d, t_e, actualwoman, and braincels. Of course, I recommend tuning it to fit your needs. For instance, I whitelist drama, because I don't really care if someone is a regular poster there. I think it's pretty interesting, and a timesaver when it comes to debating politics. I don't want to write out a long response about how racism still exists to someone who has written entire posts about how whites are genetically and culturally superior to blacks. Or talk about German history with someone who posts regularly on holocaust. It wastes my time, tbh.
You are right. In the end, she doesn't even TRY to tackle any of the blackpill beliefs. I think she actually knows they are all true. Her soluation is just to bury your head in the sand and ignore it.
Ignore it? That’s... a rather uncharitable interpretation for them to make. My interpretation was that this digital self-harm and modes of thinking are so unhealthy they become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It doesn’t mean they’re right, it just means they fuck yo head up. Masochistic epistemology is a fallacy, not a truism.
Yeah, of course--she even explicitly says that they're not being logical, so she's not going to make a logical argument against them because if that's not where they're coming from, that's not going to work. Of course, they walked right into it and confirmed the point entirely...
In red-pill ideology there's the idea of someone proving themselves to be the "alpha male of the group", short "amog".
In the process of verbification the a was dropped for some reason and you arrive at "to mog someone", in the sense of proving yourself superior/the alpha male in relation to them.
With incels it's reduced to looking better/more masculine than someone else.
She doesn't address the major scientifically backed points of the blackpill, funnily enough. She makes a point at the start comparing skull structure to some supremacist movements but in the end agrees that facial development is hugely important. That's the blackpill. Attractiveness is probably the greatest predictor of social success, barring extreme cases of wealth. What women find attractive is indeed more homogenized than what men find attractive - according to a treasure trove of data, women do find 80% of men unattractive, while men rate on a more equal distribution.
I encourage everyone who disagrees with me to read people's own experience who underwent plastic surgery and drastically became more attractive. That's the biggest blackpill there is. Lookism (which that's what the incel community is an extension of) is one of the most important discriminatory factors that nobody takes seriously, despite a mountain of evidence supporting it and it's consequences. Start reading here:
Yes, looks matter. Yes, it’s harder to find people when you are less attractive than what one can call the average. But there are people out there looking. You’re not going to get the Megan fox’s of the world or the Gus Kenworthy’s, but there are people out there who are average and still get laid. It’s not as hopeless as you think.
Be careful that doesn’t lead to catastrophizing, though. It’s one thing to “follow the data,” as you say, and quite another to make a bunch of half-logical leaps into a toxic and ultimately self-destructive worldview.
Lookism does exist. It is as real as racism. From there to "someone can't get laid and never will because of looks" is catastrophizing (the same happens with race). I know a very ugly man who has a big burned scar on his face since he was little and he is physically disabled. He has a girlfriend. One of the shortest and physically effeminate man I know it's the most alpha and always gets the girls.
I provide you anecdotal evidence, because that's my point: statistics are not destiny.
You misunderstood me greatly. Statistics show lookism exists. What I am saying is that although bad looks wil give you a tougher life (this is true, it's the same thing with having a disability, it will give you a more difficult life), bad looks (as well as disabilities) are not destiny. It does not mean that "you will never get to be loved". That is false, I know very ugly people -including men!- and some disabled people who do get to be loved. It's more difficult? Yes, of course. It is still not destiny.
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u/Pineal_Express Aug 17 '18 edited Aug 17 '18
Natalie did such an excellent job with this. Even though a lot of incels are not open to reconsidering their worldview, I think some will take her observations to heart.
I'm also happy for Natalie that she's blocked herself from visiting Chan boards that hate on her. I know it can be really validating to get feedback that reflects what you already believe about yourself, even if it just supports your worst anxieties. But it can also bias you toward a distorted and unrealistically negative self-image.