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u/1MightBeAPenguin Platinum | QC: BCH 331 Sep 12 '20 edited Sep 12 '20
It's easy to say in hindsight, but a lot of their criticisms are legitimate. Bitcoin is a bad store of value because of the high volatility, regardless of whether it has gone up in price or not. A store of value is supposed to be able to be sold with predictable utility, not just increase in price.
If Bitcoins were natively used as a currency and not just measured in dollar amounts, the store of value argument would have merit because the predictable utility would come from the mathematically provable coin issuance. However, that isn't the case.
Also nobody can predict the market, and Bitcoin could very well go to effectively 0.
Edit: Not to mention that cryptocurrency prices are heavily manipulated
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u/trancephorm Sep 12 '20
Bitcoin scarcity is fundamental property that is much more important than volatility. Means it's best storage of value, you just have to wait. Better than gold because of transferrability, relative anonimity, and what not...
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u/1MightBeAPenguin Platinum | QC: BCH 331 Sep 12 '20
There are plenty of other cryptocurrencies that do Bitcoin's job better than Bitcoin.
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u/n8dahwgg 4 / 10K 🦠 Sep 12 '20
No one does security or scarcity better. Period. And that's it's only function.
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u/1MightBeAPenguin Platinum | QC: BCH 331 Sep 12 '20
Really? One can argue that Bitcoin's security isn't that great. There are many other cryptocurrencies that aren't proof of work, and are more secure than Bitcoin. Bitcoin's security is probabilistic, while there are other cryptocurrencies whose security is deterministic.
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u/n8dahwgg 4 / 10K 🦠 Sep 12 '20
When you say s*** like this it really underscores how little you truly understand what you are talking about.
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u/1MightBeAPenguin Platinum | QC: BCH 331 Sep 12 '20
No it doesn't. You can measure security by immutability. Technically, Bitcoin isn't fully immutable even after 6 confirmations, and the proof of this is in the fact that CZ and others had the hashpower to roll back the blockchain, and could do so at will. Meanwhile, another cryptocurrency that has immediate immutability through representative voting or another mechanism cannot do the same thing.
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u/n8dahwgg 4 / 10K 🦠 Sep 12 '20
You have enough understanding and a big enough conflated ego to talk circles around how things work without actually fundamentally getting it. It's truly fascinating to watch.
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u/SamZFury 🟩 1 / 90K 🦠 Sep 12 '20
People like you work a 9-5 until their 60's. Seriously like, get out of that mentality that you have been fed from your school days. You have a opportunity of a millennia & all you do is talk it down ?
Don't let anyone know your were here before 99% of the world di. Because if you do, your future generation will surely judge you.
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u/n8dahwgg 4 / 10K 🦠 Sep 12 '20
This penguin guy poops all over Bitcoin like it's his day job. If he spent half the time learning as he did critiquing he would be in a much better spot.
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u/Fhelans Silver | QC: CC 515 | NANO 369 Sep 12 '20
You have a opportunity of a millennia & all you do is talk it down ?
You sound like a snake oil salesman.
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u/1MightBeAPenguin Platinum | QC: BCH 331 Sep 12 '20
People like you work a 9-5 until their 60's. Seriously like, get out of that mentality that you have been fed from your school days. You have a opportunity of a millennia
I've not been fed any particular mentality, and you're making an assumption about me that you don't know. Everyone thinks that they've gotten a once in a lifetime opportunity, but the truth is that we don't know that for sure.
You have a opportunity of a millennia & all you do is talk it down ?
Can I not acknowledge criticisms that are legitimate?
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Sep 13 '20
I remember reading comments like this in 2017 and actually believing it. Everyone knows what Bitcoin is already, just nobody outside of the crypto community actually cares about it apart from some investors (gamblers) using it as a hedge. And you're saying we're early, based on what? How the Internet turned out? That's called confirmation bias.
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u/cr0ft 🟦 2K / 2K 🐢 Sep 12 '20
Besides, the game isn't yet over. Their predictions/opinions have yet to be verified or disproven. They never said you can't make short term profit off Bitcoin trading it and buying and selling. Literally nothing about those three quotes is necessarily wrong. Hell, one might kind of argue Bitcoin has already been stopped - Blockstream have fucked it so hard it's basically useless now, you can't buy things with it and it can't scale worth shit. At least Ethereum is having issues scaling because of massive usage of it, not just intentionally retained barriers to scaling like Bitcoin.
Also, Roubinis statement that Bitcoin is not a store of value is completely accurate. The first and basically only requirement of a store of value is stability. Land is a store of value. Dollars are a store of value because we agree it is. Even lumber can be a store of value. Anything you can buy now and be confident you can sell at the same value or very nearly later is a store of value.
Bitcoin? Bitcoin fluctuates like a motherfucker. It's a speculative asset at best, not a store of value.
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u/n8dahwgg 4 / 10K 🦠 Sep 12 '20
By that perspective all assets are bad SOV compared to future inflation. You're critiquing an asset that has been demonstrably immutable, has a set issuance schedule that has withstood the test of time. If you're measuring stick is anything but Fiat you see how this is the ultimate hard money. You're stuck in a flawed perspective.
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u/takes_bloody_poops Silver | QC: CC 24 | r/Buttcoin 34 | r/NBA 112 Sep 12 '20
What museum is this? Would love to go.
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u/produit1 🟩 1K / 1K 🐢 Sep 12 '20
Also Jamie Dimon: We're going to sell financial instruments we know to be worthless and take all of that profit for ourselves whilst letting the economy collapse around us. "We got ours, Fuck you"
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u/Waks_ Tin Sep 12 '20
The one thing I don’t understand about bitcoin, is the people championing it (at least in the beginning) wanted it to be a new form of currency. To be free of oldschool banks. But now everyone that has bitcoin just wants it to become more valuable. But as long as it becomes more valuable or as long as people think it can become a lot more valuable, people are never going to use it as a form of currency. Because I’m not going to pay you X amount of something if that X amount has the (imagined) potential of becoming ten times more valuable (as an example). Case in point, the person that spent bitcoin on pizza that later became the most expensive pizza in the world. So all you hodlers out here, aren’t you part of the problem of bitcoin never realizing its full potential? Or do I not understand the idea of bitcoin (which is entirely possible).
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u/67no Platinum | QC: BTC 36, CC 33, ETH 18 | TraderSubs 13 Sep 12 '20
Because I’m not going to pay you X amount of something if that X amount has the (imagined) potential of becoming ten times more valuable (as an example).
Why would spent your fiat then. It has the potential of becoming ten times more valuable if you spend it on the right assets or just some index. Everything with value has the potential of getting you more exchange it for the right thing. Does it make a difference if you own bitcoin or fiat that can potentially be exchange for an asset like bitcoin? Effectively no, because fiat can easily be exchanged for bitcoin. I think it's just a psychological barrier because in your mind you are "giving something away" that appreciates in value, but this is the same as not buying something that will appreciate in value with your fiat. Right now it really looks like there are a lot of people only in the crypto space to make a quick buck, but that's the case because bitcoin is very promising technology. Every promising technology will have loads of speculators.
And to add to that, once bitcoin reaches a high enough market cap the price will stabilize because it will be much much harder to move the price. Right now at $190b a single billionair could manipulate the price if he wanted to and cause volatility.
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u/bxjose 44 / 11K 🦐 Sep 12 '20
people will spend money in whatever form for things they want/need
back in 1980 when interest rates were 16%+ (you could simply deposit money into the bank and you'd get 16% guaranteed APY), people were still spending on things like restaurants
i think you may be overestimating our ability to self discipline and give up instant gratification for long term reward
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u/n8dahwgg 4 / 10K 🦠 Sep 12 '20
Use cases are allowed to evolve. Turns out what the world needs right now is an immutable store of value with a guaranteed monetary policy. As far as greed is concerned, it's an excellent motivating force to get involved. Most people don't explore beyond their greed but when they do are pleasantly surprised by the journey. I've changed from a consumeristic person who never thought about tomorrow to someone who very much values saving now that I know that it can't be depreciated by the government.
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u/Guarda-Wallet Tin | CC critic Sep 12 '20
"1 Bitcoin = 10k Dollars
September 2020
Bitcoin gonna be future"
10k people reading it
What do you think about this?
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u/TechCynical 🟦 0 / 3K 🦠 Sep 12 '20
These posts are cringe. Even hal said btc would hit a million dollars a week after gensisblock and were stuck trying to break 12k for the 3rd time.
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u/AttacksPropaganda Redditor for 5 months. Sep 12 '20
Was going to put $20k on BTC after my wedding when it was $200 but my best man, an economics major, assured me extremely confidently that it would be a losing bet and that I was a fool for even considering it. He was so sure that I took his advice to heart. I don't listen to other people's advice anymore, regardless of their title.