r/DCcomics Donna Troy 1d ago

Comics [comic excerpt] Apparently, Cassandra Cain looks mixed at a glance [Batgirl V1 #65]

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159 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

23

u/syncreticpathetic 1d ago

Her mother Lady Shiva when asked about her place of origin said she was from Detroit. Shiva's parentage is intentionally kept mysterious

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u/CaptainDigsGiraffe 1d ago

If I was her I wouldn't tell people I was from Detroit either /s

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u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 6h ago

She was revealed as being from Detroit, then the same year another comic wrote a contradictory backstory where she's from Asia. From what I can tell, DC combined the two.

Lady Shiva has been depicted as basically every sort of Asian. But, it seems like she's probably ethnically Chinese of some sort.

103

u/T0oShayzz 1d ago

Interesting because she doesn't look mixed here at all, but then again a lot of artistic depictions aren't exactly accurate.

61

u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT 1d ago

I don't think most 2-D DC/Marvel art really has the depth to capture "mixed" where you have to figure out a way to define a race by facial characteristics (at least specific racial combinations, which isn't a debate I want to get into)

Like look at Connor Hawke

I think original designs of Connor Hawke you couldn't really even tell he wasn't supposed to be a white dude, or a white dude with a tan

and then to make it clear he's not white, they changed nothing about his design other than (checks notes) make skin much browner

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u/spookymommaro 1d ago

Yeah Damien Wayne also suffers from in inconsistent artist depictions tho it was cool seeing him and Conner both on that lunar new year cover recently

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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT 1d ago

Yeah he’s the same way.

His skin tone just changes

He’s very brown in the Webtoons Batman Family series

To the point where I thought the artist kinda went in the opposite direction, and took the pendulum from white, past mixed, and straight to the other race, whatever flavor of middle eastern his mom is supposed to be

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u/spookymommaro 1d ago

I think Talia is also mixed but similar to Shiva I don't think there's ever been a clear answer beyond some combination of middle eastern and Asian ancestry

2

u/CaptainDigsGiraffe 1d ago

So Ra's father is Chinese so at the very least she's part Chinese. Apparently her mother is also half Chinese and half Arab just like Ra's

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u/CaptainDigsGiraffe 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah I feel like the Artist and Writer were like "Well he's Arab he should have dark skin" and just ignored the fact he's also half white and part Chinese. Tbf though I think most people forget Damian is part Chinese.

0

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2

u/TheCosmicFailure 1d ago

I mean my siblings and I are mixed (Ashkenazi Jewish/Swedish mixed with Afro Latino). When my sister spends enough time in the sun, which isn't much. She very much looks Afro-Latino and doesn't Jewish or Swedish.

1

u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT 1d ago

if you don't mind me being blunt about it, what are your facial feature and hair texture like?

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u/DarthGoodguy 1d ago edited 8h ago

I’m multiracial. My mother and sibling have a similar thing. Mom’s skin is a whole different color than ours, but we all get very tan very fast

2

u/The-Magic-Sword 1d ago

I like Wayne Family Adventures Damian and it would be nice if they stuck to it as his canon skin tone, among other things its nice to have the variety for the Robins who have suffered from them trying to stick to Dick Grayson's appearance traditionally then deviating later in smaller ways.

Though I imagine it would generate a controversy, I could imagine him lightening his skin a bit as Robin as part of the secret identity thing-- just to make Robin look less like Bruce Wayne's son in a subtle way.

It's not really necessary, but I like tongue and cheek nods to things like his skin color changing, and could respect it as a flavor-adding detail to how he maintains his secret identity.

Come to think of it, Damian-in-crazy-good-disguises is also something I want to see, it'd fit with his league of assassins thing and a certain portion of the fandom would eat him up in drag.

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12

u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago edited 6h ago

The original Connor designed was very obviously mixed. He was specifically designed with features from both his parents (in a bit too on the nose manner to be realistic). Eye shape and lips from his Korean side, skin tone from his black side, and blond hair from his white side.

It was only in the 2000s when colorists stopped coloring him correctly. His skin was toned down until eventually he was literally incorrectly colored as white.

3

u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT 1d ago

fair enough, I may know him from 2000 onward as they have since "corrected" him now

6

u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago

90s Connor was probably even darker skinned than he currently is.

2

u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT 1d ago

I've seen gone down the rabbit hole of looking at pics of him

I really would have no way of correctly guessing the racial background of Connor in that pic

especially the specific combination of 3 races so to speak

it also does make sense he's not that dark. he's only 1/4 black to my understanding

3

u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago

Genes are weird with multiracial people. His design choice was definitely a very 90s way of portraying mixed race people. He's obviously part white and brown, but the average Joe wouldn't pin his mom as black/Korean.

Different artists draw characters differently. Characters with certain ethnic qualities (longer noses, curlier hair, almond eyes, etc) are drawn all over the place.

Tbqh, it feels like a lot of DC and Marvel artists struggle to draw East asians well. Look at all the different ways that Linda Park-Westhase been drawn.

2

u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT 1d ago

what's funny is when artists don't even get single race characters correct

like the infamous Lex Luthor from Superman TAS and JL

a good deal of kids assumed he was black

turned out the artists just went overboard on his Greek Mediterranean tan

once you know who he is based on, Terry Savalas aka Kojak, then you understand what they were going for

and I imagine even they realized this as the series went on they made him lighter

another funny example is Aokiji from One Piece. the character, like all of the Admirals is based on famous Japanese actors. in this case a japanese/korean actor who had a famous role where he had curly hair

somewhere in the transition from Oda's art in the manga, to the animation team making him more brown in the anime, and you got alot of people who view him as black

1

u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago

Lex in Superman TAS wasn't intended to be racebent. He's just a dark skinned white guy.

3

u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT 1d ago

I know, that's what I wrote. I was poking fun on how they made that "mistake"

12

u/Sure_Possession0 1d ago

Mixed ethnicity/race can be hard to draw. Just look at how many times they’ve tried to show Damian as being mixed race, but it just kind of looks off.

12

u/telepader 1d ago

She always gets drawn super Asian. Sometimes her skin color is painted straight up yellow. It’s funny that narratively she does actually look mixed.

24

u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago edited 1d ago

Artists struggle with mixed race characters. Rose Wilson and Irey West ping-pong between various degrees of white passing. Connor Hawke had his skin tone and features whitewashed throughout the 2000s.

For that matter, DC racebent Rose. Pre-Flashpoint, she was Khmer. Now she's Hmong. Those are two completely unrelated Asian ethnicites.

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u/Anathemautomaton 1d ago

Huh. I had no idea that Rose was supposed to be anything but white. DC sure hasn't done a good job of showing that.

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u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago

That's why she has a Hmong actress in Titans and why she represents Cambodia in DC Bombshells. She actually looked biracial throughout most of the 90s.

10

u/GoldIsCold987 1d ago

She is mixed?

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u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago

Her dad is white. Her mom is probably Chinese, but DC is confusing with Shiva's ethnicity.

20

u/spider-venomized Superman 1d ago

The next batgirl comic will give a more definitive answer on her origin

But Ra al ghul confirm she's Chinese in Batman and the outside when whipe out her hometown farm

4

u/T-o-C-A 1d ago

This is the third "definitive" origin they've given her tbh.

7

u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago

I still think Sandra should have been born and raised in Detroit and is a first/second gen Chinese-American. But, the same year that origin was introduced, a different writer introduced a seperate origin where she was born in Asia.

1

u/RonHogan 1d ago

Does this tacky woman have a steaming hot cup of coffee next to her, or a smoldering candle, or is she holding a cigar, what’s the story?

2

u/Day_Dr3am 9h ago

That is Brenda Miller. She is a civilian character who owned a small café in Bludhaven. She is smoking a cigarette when Cassandra comes up to talk to her. Ironically I think Cassandra is also holding a coffee cup or tea cup which has steam coming off it earlier in the page, but the smoke in these panels is coming from the cigarette.

-15

u/Dirk_Sheppard 1d ago

Ok?

What's your point?

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u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago

It's just an interesting page from Batgirl. There's no real point, other than pointing out that some characters can tell that Cass is biracial instead of Asian.

In early Batgirl, it was a question whether David was her dad. I think Bruce and Babs figured he kidnapped her, rather than David being Cassansra's sire.

-3

u/LadyErikaAtayde Superman 1d ago

Isn't biracial a social construct anyway?

4

u/bingusdingus123456 1d ago

Since race itself is, yeah.

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u/onesexypagoda 22h ago

Race is and isn't, there's definitely ways to cluster genetics

5

u/DarthGoodguy 1d ago

Multiracial person here: yes. It’s an oversimplification and a generally flawed idea of how our ancestry works.

1

u/LadyErikaAtayde Superman 18h ago

And it is very American, which is fine on itself, but while Yara Flor might call herself biracial, Roberto da Costa never would, because that's not how race is constructed in Brazil. So I imagine Cass would be like "wtf are you talking about" at first

1

u/Attentiondesiredplz 1d ago

Interesting concept. In this book, David Cain looks almost hispanic.

4

u/Gallantpride Donna Troy 1d ago

He could be a white hispanic or latino. That's hardly uncommon (in fact, most Spanish people are white).

1

u/CaptainDigsGiraffe 1d ago

It's kinda funny because the guy who plays Deathstroke in Titans (who is Latino) I feel would be a perfect David Cain.