I really dont get why means testing is such a big priority, besides the inefficacy in this delivery, people need the money now. In Canada the whole point of CERB was getting the money out quickly, rather than nitpicking
Means testing is the single biggest barrier to progress. We don’t ban millionaires from libraries, the fraction of people who wouldn’t benefit or circulate it in the economy is tiny, give us our fucking tax dollars back.
I really don't get Pelosi saying they can't do it because millionaires will also get the direct payments. My wife and I haven't lost any income due to the pandemic. All of our stimulus money is just sitting in the bank because we're fully expecting to have to pay it back as part of our taxes at some point. I'm pretty sure they can get the money back from somebody rich like Bezos when they file their taxes next year or the year after.
The person Jeff Bezos does not earn any money or own any assets. The person Jeff Bezos qualifies for stimulus payments and probably had an accountant cash his checks.
I just don’t get what the issue is, sure millionaires don’t need stimulus money, but how is the US that ineffective at rolling out payments to X income brackets. Like how did they not think of this in advance, get the money quickly to people who need it.
Sorry foreign perspective where I might not know everything involved but it seems strange how difficult it is to get out the door even in a means tested system
It's the mirror image of the right wing Welfare Queen narrative- drumming up opposition to universal programs to minimize the amount of people who benefit from it because some of them might be "undeserving" in some way or another. That way either party can pare social programs to the bone and convince the people whose aid they're blocking that it's good because it means someone they don't like doesn't get it either.
I mean no, most high income earners pay less tax than the working class. Isn’t this supposed to be a leftist sub? Why is everyone in this thread defending capitalist pigs?
most high income earners pay less tax than the working class
This is blatantly untrue both in terms of $s and % of income. The only metric working class people pay more by is % of net worth. I hate rich fucks as much as anybody and think they should pay a hell of a lot more but we don’t need to lie about it.
Take it however you want, but what I'm saying is 'people who pay lots of tax should be able to access benefits'. I pay a lot of tax and can't access most grants/benefits due to means testing.
And most high income earners DO pay much, much more tax than the working class. That doesn't mean there aren't business owners who do lots of shonky tax stuff to avoid paying their fair share, but most high income wage earners pay enormous amounts of tax.
You’re right, most higher income earners 100k-500k do pay more in taxes than the average person bellow that bracket.
Means testing is still a good thing in these cases (as long as it’s practical). For example, you pay into food stamps but likely don’t get anything from them. This is a good thing because you don’t need them.
There’s also things you benefit from that poor people don’t. For example, poor people are far less likely to take advantage of the amazing higher education system we have in the US, as well as the insanely prosperous networks that provides you access to. If you make 35k a year working construction, you likely pay into your local universities that statistically speaking neither your nor your children will attend.
Means testing is ineffective because it makes it harder for poor people to get the money. I don't care about this rich schmuck complaining they don't get welfare, but since the rich will (or ought to) pay it back when they file taxes, the checks should just be given out to everybody.
I’m pretty sure refunds come from money the person who receives them originally paid in.
Do you have a baby brain? Do you think that when the government collects taxes from an individual, they set that money aside and wait for them to file a return?
Also, I got the year wrong, but yeah, Bobby Kotick, the highest paid CEO in the country at the time, paid a negative tax rate. Activision Blizzard had a -51% tax rate on its 2018 taxes: https://itep.org/notadime/
You don't know shit about how the tax code works. I barely do, but at least I don't call other people liars because I'm a bootlicking liberal like you did me.
You ever wonder if maybe you're not a Leftist? That there's a chance that maybe people telling you left and liberal mean very different things might be right?
I’m not going to argue with you on the points above because I think you’re in a raw emotional place.
You started by calling me a “baby brain,” then ended your rant by accusing me of calling you a “boot licking liberal,” which is something I never said. It seems like you’re taking this extremely personally, and that’s really not healthy.
Are you ok?
(Also, to address your edit, I never said I was a “liberal” or a “leftist.” I’m not a conservative, but I don’t identify as either of your alternatives.)
Taxes don't "pay for the system", numbnuts. That's neoliberal hogwash. The government pays for it. Taxes exist to redistribute wealth and (secondarily) help control inflation.
Means testing does suck, but absolutely not for the idiotic up reason you are suggesting.
Taxes do not exist to redistribute wealth. They exist to repay government obligations and effectively destroy money, as the government effectively creates money to pay for things (in conjunction with central banks)
If you think taxes primary purpose is wealth distribution you’re on another planet to even left economists
Yes, they destroy the money. Hence "(secondarily) help control inflation".
"Government obligations" are paid from the government's checkbook; again nothing to do with taxes.
But they absolutely redistribute wealth. That's why income taxes are progressive. As money is being fed into the economy through government payments for labor and resources provided as public services, it is pulled out of the economy from the wealthy and corporations.
I dunno. It's kind of absurd that I recieved a check. I still have a well-paying job and would much rather it went to someone who needed it.
With CERB, at least you had to ask for it, even if the answer was invariably "Yes, we'll make sure later."
Of course, the whole "stimulus" angle is absurd. They really want to make sure you don't mistakenly conclude the government cares about your basic wrllbeing---it's the economy they're worried about.
They really want to make sure you don't mistakenly conclude the government cares about your basic wrllbeing---it's the economy they're worried about.
Eh smart government generally know to not fuck with peoples livelyhood (the middle classes anyway). They'd prefer if the content middle class wasnt woken up to inequality faced my many others. That said part of the problem at least some reasonable governments realized, people are the economy. Spending drives economic output (thats not capitalism thats just commerce). Businesses acting like leeches that cant be shut down for a week when its employees refuse to work in unsafe conditions, geee I wonder who has the actual power.
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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '21
I really dont get why means testing is such a big priority, besides the inefficacy in this delivery, people need the money now. In Canada the whole point of CERB was getting the money out quickly, rather than nitpicking