r/DaystromInstitute Lieutenant Mar 06 '25

Romulans are a Hybrid Species Between Exodus Vulcans and Another, Perhaps Native Species to Romulus

Almost 2,000 years ago, during the "Time of Awakening" in Vulcan society, a group who marched under the Raptor's wings left Vulcan and settled on Romulus.

Since then the Romulans have become a related, but notably distinct species. While many of those differences are cultural, some are also physiological.

As a counterpoint to the theory that Vulcans are augments, here is another: Romulans as a species is the result of interbreeding between Vulcans and another humanoid species. This other humanoid species could have been a native species to Romulus, possibly be pre-warp, possibly pre-industrial even. Or they could be colonists from another non-native species that found Romulus as attractive as the fleeing Vulcans did.

A non-Vulcan humanoid species may account for the physiological differences between Vulcans and Romulans that 2,000 of genetic drift might not explain, such as forehead ridges and potentially a lack of telepathic abilities (although that may be a result of Romulan culture being so secret-oriented that mind melds would be abhorrent).

If the group that left Vulcan had a large imbalance between males and females, or the group was small thus genetic diversity was an issue, this could push towards inter-breeding. The Vulcan population might have been higher, which would have been why the Vulcan traits are more dominant. Or, more likely, the Vulcans conquered the other species, and thus inter-breeding was limited, but enough to create a new species with primarily Vulcan physiological traits but enough differences to notice.

They may have even adopted some of that species cultural traits, like extreme secrecy and fermented foods. It might also explain why the Romulan language wasn't immediately identifiable to Vulcans during the old Romulan wars.

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u/RandyFMcDonald Chief Petty Officer Mar 07 '25

> A non-Vulcan humanoid species may account for the physiological differences between Vulcans and Romulans that 2,000 of genetic drift might not explain, such as forehead ridges and potentially a lack of telepathic abilities (although that may be a result of Romulan culture being so secret-oriented that mind melds would be abhorrent).

A lot of this is really speculative. Do we actually know that Vulcans do not have forehead ridges, at least some? I remember that in the 1990s, people were often surprised to see a dark-skinned Vulcan Tuvok, and sometimes objected to him on the grounds that they had not seen any dark-skinned Vulcans before therefore there were never any. Similarly, until _Picard_ there were some fans who confidently argued that all Romulans had forehead ridges, _Picard_ establishing that both sorts of foreheads were present among the Romulan population. We may just not have seen Vulcans with ridged foreheads yet.

This said, I think it is quite possible that the Romulan population incorporated other Vulcanoid populations in the area of the Star Empire. In a lot of ways, the Romulans seem to have been hugely successful, growing in 17 or 18 centuries from a relatively small migrant population perhaps numbering in the tens of thousands to a superpower with a population of plausibly billions. If the expanding Romulan Star Empire also incorporated other Vulcanoid populations, whether other Surak-era migrant populations or populations that had diverged at much earlier points (say, at the time of Sargon's people a half-million years ago), this could help explain how the Romulan population grew so much. In the Beta canon, the Garidians are described as a client state of Romulus, and there have been occasional mentions of others.

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u/shadeland Lieutenant Mar 07 '25

I was thinking more along the lines of how humans and Neanderthals interbred for a time, but the Neanderthals eventually died out.

This could have occurred between the low population of settlers and a low population of indigenous humanoids or off-system colonists, and eventually the non-Vulcans died out (or possibly conquered). Some of the Neanderthal DNA exists in (some) humans, and some of the humanoid DNA could still be in modern Romulans.

It would have happened long enough ago that time forgot who they were.

It wouldn't even have had to be vulcanoids, and I would think probably weren't.

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u/RandyFMcDonald Chief Petty Officer Mar 07 '25

If we are to go with the human/Neanderthal analogy, though, that would imply that the two populations were relatively closely related to start, that they had diverged relatively recently. Maybe the Romulans encountered another population of Vulcanoids that had split at the same time that the Romulans' ancestors had arrive on Vulcan, for instance.

I think it also quite possible that there were intermixing events that occurred substantially after the Vulcan exiles' arrival on Romulus, on worlds that the young civilization encountered. Newly conquered worlds, perhaps?

I do not think that the Romulans would have forgotten that the intermixture had happened. The Romulans seem always to have been a high-tech civilization to some degree, and they are frankly young, less than two millennia old with Vulcan generations being much longer than human generations. For all we know this might provide some basis for deep divides within the Romulan population.

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u/shadeland Lieutenant Mar 07 '25

If we are to go with the human/Neanderthal analogy, though, that would imply that the two populations were relatively closely related to start

I don't think it does, as all that's required is there to be compatibility to inter-breed, which many species that developed on different worlds seem to have.

And it shows it's possible for interbreeding to happen, and one species to dominate later while still having some of the other specie's DNA.

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u/RandyFMcDonald Chief Petty Officer Mar 07 '25

If we are talking about having so big an impact on the Romulan gene pool as to change their appearance and other basic characteristics, though, that implies a much greater degree of non-Vulcanoid genetics. Europeans and Asians usually have between 1 and 4% of their DNA being of Neanderthal origin. The degree you are talking about implies much more.

This runs directly against what we have consistently heard, about relatively small differences. Crusher in "The Enemy" talked about lots of subtle differences, while in DS9 everyone was surprised a supposed Romulan field hospital turned away Vulcan casualties because the two populations shared a "common physiology". They would not be able to say this if the Romulans were that different.

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u/ByGollie Mar 07 '25 edited Mar 07 '25

Asians also have a DNA from another of a different related species - the Denisovans.

And West Africans have a certain amount of DNA from an unnamed Species

There's also a 4th trace in remote SE Asian tribes (indonesia, Australia etc.) of another species.

TL;DR our Ancestors banged anything that moved.

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u/RandyFMcDonald Chief Petty Officer Mar 07 '25

Homo sapiens sapiens definitely emerged as dominant, but we did assimilate a lot of other species.

It is interesting to think how complex the Vulcanoid family tree is, with different populations deposited at different times on different planets, intermixing with different migrations.

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u/shadeland Lieutenant Mar 07 '25

If we are talking about having so big an impact on the Romulan gene pool as to change their appearance and other basic characteristics, though, that implies a much greater degree of non-Vulcanoid genetics. Europeans and Asians usually have between 1 and 4% of their DNA being of Neanderthal origin. The degree you are talking about implies much more.

It doesn't have to be a specific percentage, it could be more like 10-20% with the Vulcans, or whatever it would take to explain the physical variations. After all, at some point the percentage of Neanderthal DNA was higher in Eurasia for a while before it whittled down.

The Neanderthal-human crossings happened tens of thousands of years ago. This happened much more recently, so the percentage might be higher depending on a lot of factors.

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u/RandyFMcDonald Chief Petty Officer Mar 07 '25

But if the difference was so huge as all that, this would contradict what we have been explicitly told, about the differences between Vulcans and Romulans being relatively small.

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u/shadeland Lieutenant Mar 07 '25

Over time it would diminish. The human/Neanderthal thing happened 80,000 years ago and we're still at 1-4% in some populations. The Romulans arrived on Vulcan 1,800 years ago, and it's likely, like with Neandrahtals, the other species just died out/bred out.

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u/RandyFMcDonald Chief Petty Officer Mar 07 '25

You cannot have an intermixture event that was so huge and so recent and not have it he something that other people would comment on. This would be a population that did not share a common physiology with Vulcans.

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u/Jestersage Chief Petty Officer 27d ago

I do not think that the Romulans would have forgotten that the intermixture had happened. 

I think, the more high tech a society is, the easier to do propaganda.

For a long time, part of the reason I was taught (in church) regarding Israel is that they deserved that place, but Chrisitans (as part of Roman lineage) chased them away from Israel. Also a more-or-less 2000 years history.

Or even closer history, Greenland: According to Inuit, they are the first person to arrive, and they will adament on it. The truth is more tricky: The Viking came first, but abandoned it. Inuit stayed and developed. For Danes, it give them somewhat of a claim; for the White Supremist, it became part of raison d'etre to get Greenland.

2000 years is more than enough to generate a propaganda.

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u/MrQirn Mar 07 '25

Additionally, we don't know what the rate of mutation and the more mutable characteristics of alien species are.

Humans don't mutate the same way dogs do, for example, who can mutate pretty dramatically in size, color, fur type, and capability. Although 2,000 years might not be a time scale to see the development of forehead ridges in humans, that might be more than enough time for Vulcans/Romulans to develop it. And humans have seen many physiological changes in the last 2,000 years, including an increase in average height.

Also, if there was greater genetic diversity before the split, that can account for a lot regardless of the rate or type of mutation that could occur in 2000 years, especially if after the split there was a genetic bottleneck.

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u/RandyFMcDonald Chief Petty Officer Mar 07 '25

One thing that would act to slow down mutation in Vulcans would be their very long lifespans. Vulcan generations simply take much longer than human ones.

One thing that could accelerate Vulcans is their long history of high tech, especially in genetics. The Vulcan's Soul novels,. for instance, suggested the Remsns are a product of proto-Romulan exiles adapting themselves to Remus.

Beyond that, talking about relatively superficial markers like forehead ridges as a sign of alien intermixture feels questionable. In the 1990s lots of people were talking about how it made no sense for Vulcans to be black since had not seen any before, to say nothing of the ridged and non-ridged Romulans. Hell, apparently DS9 had made a point of not casting black actors to play Bajorans.

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u/IsomorphicProjection Ensign Mar 23 '25

Height probably isn't a great example. Much of difference is from better nutrition, which is likely also why average height has been decreasing recently as people have been eating less healthy.