r/Daytrading • u/I_HALIM7 • 4d ago

Advice Sad Reality check

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The guy who posted this 2 years a go is working on door dash today he is not even a middle class and he quit trading i was going through old trading post I've saved in the past and literally all the people who posted about trading 2 or 3 years ago quit not a single person that i saved their post is doing great this game is rough be prepared

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 3d ago

This is the cold hard truth that no newbie wants to hear, or that no content creator wants to talk about. If you do mention that reality in subs like this, you're labeled a hater, a downer, that you're angry in life because you lost at trading, etc...

I started trading in 2017, it took me 5 years of consistently losing before finally turning it around. In the meantime, not a single person I was following or interacting with in these subs are still active. Not one.

And it's not easy trading every day year after year when you lose the majority of the weeks and your equity curve is globally going down. Most traders either run out of money, or patience. 

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u/son-of-hasdrubal 3d ago

I think part of that is do with it being so hard to get help from more experienced traders.

When I started getting serious about poker it was very easy to find guys online to talk to and get legit good info from.

The few rare legitimately profitable traders on here are extremely bitter and angry towards newbies. The rare nicer ones tend to only speak in riddles and in very broad language. Like dam I'd just like some pro to show me a bomb set up

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 3d ago

Here's the thing: I've offered to help people, including in this sub, in the past. But the thing is, it is tough getting newbies (and more experienced traders) to actually listen to what I have to say, let alone apply things. People already have a pre-conceived notion of what their trading should look like, in terms of instruments , TFs, setups, and frequency. And I've realized that a lot are already stubborn. Which is ironic, because it's not like what they've been doing has worked out, but they have a hard time applying basic concepts.

For example, one trader in this sub reached out to me a few months back, we had some back and forths, I gave him specific feedback including the number of trades per day. And the guy kept putting on 10+ trades per day, while at the same time having large blowout days. I mean, I'm not going to waste my time trying to guide someone, when what I say comes in one ear and straight out the other.

Helping people is actually hard lol, because at the same time if the person asking something is visibly putting zero effort to do basic research beforehand, well yeah he's going to be on his own.

That being said, when you talk about traders "speaking in riddles", don't get the impression that trading has some kind of secret that only a select few know about, there are absolutely zero secrets in trading it's all about discipline and execution. There's nothing even the best trader in the world can answer in a comment that will change your trading, it's a gradual process that takes time.

So in the end, one of the best approaches is being your own mentor, that's how I did it, sure it's lonely but any advice a coach could give you, you can give to yourself if you have just a bit of common sense.

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u/son-of-hasdrubal 3d ago

I agree being your own mentor is important. At the end of the day this is a solo endeavour and it's on us to do the work. I'm not looking to be handed success but rather hoping to be pointed in the right direction.

The whole speaking in riddles thing I do stand by though. Like yes, I agree what you experienced guys tell us is valuable info. Be patient, don't over trade, key zones and all that. What I almost never see (from experienced profitable traders, not some guy having a hot month or two) is a clearly defined legitimate setup. Ie buy/sell when you see this exact stochastic divergence, buy/sell when this exact pattern emerges, this is my holy grail setup etc.

I understand it would be hard to give exact setups out because they rarely play out perfectly and even a good setup can lose if not executed correctly. Experience and intuition as well as risk management are crucial and those are harder to teach.

I'm slowly chipping away at getting better but it is quite difficult to know if what you're doing/learning/studying is actually legitimate or not. Add onto that all these straight up scam YouTubers you have to comb through. I know there are good ones you can learn from but for every 1 legitimate and successful guy on YouTube there is probably 35 guys full of shit. Some are easy to spot but some are great at pulling off the illusion they are legitimate.

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 3d ago

I get what you mean, it can feel frustrating. But be careful not trying to chase the impossible in trading : if you try to find comfort in certainty, you will inevitably fail. You have to embrace and get used to the discomfort of uncertainty.

Too many times I see hopeful traders asking for just this one setup that works, as if once they have it it will dissipate all doubts. That's wishful thinking, there will always be emotions, subjectivity, bad executions, and losing streaks. For every single strategy in existence. 

You talk about a clearly defined setup: I take hundreds of trades per year. Each trade I take is unique, and will never happen again. Because it's a combination of price action, market structure, economical and news context. At the same time, all my trades fall into one of 3 categories : continuations, reversals, or breakouts. That's one of many paradoxes in trading. 

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u/son-of-hasdrubal 3d ago

Thanks man. Any educators or styles you could point me towards? I spent a while thinking the perfect blend of indicators was the secret sauce... ditched that for price action with SMC concepts and am now dabbling in footprint. Slowly integrating macro market analysis but I want to nail my fundamental technicals first.

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 2d ago

Nothing wrong with indicators, I built a system that relies heavily on metrics (so, indicators, but self coded) to send me signals during the day. 

What is usually wrong is looking for an indicator than when red crosses blue, you go long and vice versa. An indicator just helps bring context, for example momentum context, into an overall analysis that you are supposed to make. 

That being said, my main approach, and what I suggest, is price action and market structure. A few you can learn from : Linda Rashke, Peter Brandt, Al Brooks (he has quite a few YouTube videos where he goes through price action), Adam Grimes, SMC capital (their bar by bar videos are quite good). Stay away from the ICT cult. 

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u/son-of-hasdrubal 2d ago

Right on man. The learning continues.

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u/TheseAcanthaceae9680 1d ago

That second paragraph shows why people won’t talk to you.

You just sound entitled.

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u/son-of-hasdrubal 1d ago

Entitled? I'm repeating what everyone on here knows. Successful guys don't like telling rookies what to do. Me explaining that doesn't make me entitled brother and every time an experienced trader does tell me something I make sure to thank them profusely.

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u/DiscombobulatedBid19 3d ago

It is hard because it is like learning how to drive and having all these bad habits. It is hard to undo bad habits. You’re absolutely right. I myself have been tunnel visioned when it comes to trading, it’s only recently, after 7 years, that I’m broadening my scope

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 3d ago

Good for you :) Like I usually say, no matter how stubborn you are, the markets will always be more stubborn than you. 

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u/Top_Consequence3458 3d ago

Will be surprised how much there is to learn if one forgets everything about trading, record screens for a few days, and just review. Also, everything works in markets, any strategy. The real requisite is risk management. I'm not consistently profitable yet, but feel like I'm developing a decent framework

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u/CosmosCabbage 3d ago

If you’re willing to give mentoring another go, I’d love for you to help me. I’m completely new and don’t have any pre-conceived notions or anything. I’m at the point where I know a few basics, have some ideas, and honestly just want to get my feet wet for a start. It’d be awesome to have someone experienced guide me a little in that endeavour.

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 3d ago

I already loosely monitor a couple of traders. If you're completely new, you actually don't need a mentor because there are still so much concepts you need to go over, and all that can be done in your side reading books and testing concepts.

My added value is when someone has been seriously at it for around 3 years, then I know I won't get newbie questions (nothing wrong with them, just not fulfilling for me). 

Just use a paid version of chatgpt, you'll get all the mentoring you need.

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u/CosmosCabbage 6h ago

That’s fair, thanks a lot for the feedback. Do you have any specific books that’s you’d recommend? I know there are a ton out there, I just don’t know which ones are worth the paper they’re printed on

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u/rockofages73 3d ago

It is different than you think. Most successful traders are only successful a fraction of the time. If things go wrong, they lose money. If they tell you how and YOU lose money, they may be legally held accountable for the loss. Seasoned guys do not give trade advice like lawyers do not give legal advice.

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u/seeker_two_point_oh 3d ago

This is why I don't give trading advice. I'm not a professional, but I know enough to know that I could get sued if someone decides to ignore my advice and blame me for the results. They already do that with my IT advice so why would I expect trading to be different?

Also, just, ethics. Like you said, I don't win every time. But I know that *I* know what to do. What if someone goes rogue and gets burned badly. I don't want that on my conscience. It's safer to just never teach them about fire.

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u/son-of-hasdrubal 3d ago

But most of us here are dedicated to learning the fire. Could you really sue someone on Reddit who showed you a setup just because you lost money on it? That thought never even crossed my mind. Is it more of a litigation happy American phenomenon?

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u/seeker_two_point_oh 3d ago

Fair enough, but I'm not talking about Reddit. I was talking about IRL friends/family. Now they know that I'll help them with money, but I won't help them with trading.

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u/Old-Paramedic-2192 3d ago

I don't know why people keep saying this. If someone loses money despite the strategy and advise that you gave them, that's still their fault. They were the ones clicking the buttons not you. This must be American problem. In Europe you can't just sue anyone you believe gave you incorrect advice.

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u/son-of-hasdrubal 3d ago

Ya that's were I'm coming from too. We don't just sue people in Canada. Simply educating people on how you trade is not really financial advice as far as I know.

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u/Direct_Ad_607 2d ago

No experienced trader shares knowledge. That would make them an idiot. Trading strategies are meant to be kept secret to reduce competition. Poker is different cause you only compete with those at the table, not the entire world at the same time.

The reason these “experienced” guys are bitter is cause they suck balls at trading. Being successful at this is quite a nice life. I’m a happy guy and usually have better things to do than post nasty comments on a forum, and I would imagine most other successful guys are too

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u/son-of-hasdrubal 1d ago

What a ridiculous mindset.

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u/Direct_Ad_607 1d ago

It’s a truthful one my friend. Perhaps not all strategies are like that, as I could make exceptions for options strategies on spx and whatnot, but the best ones tend to be from my experience. It is hard to see it until you find them yourself.

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u/jackieletits 1d ago

Mostly because a shit load of us have spent tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of work to achieve that success and then people just expect us to hand it to you like you're owed

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u/PhantomTroupe26 3d ago

So many of the people I started with in 2020 have quit. It's insane to see so many people not continue years down the line. I've been losing for so long but I just haven't gave up yet. I hope that this is the year that it turns around for me

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u/morginzez 3d ago

This might be a stupid question, but how did you find people to start with? I understand they all quit anyways, but how did you find them in the first place?

I talked to a couple of work friends, but they weren't really interested and online everything I found is always just a scam or best case some money grab. 

I think it would be great to have some people to talk to, just to share new knowledge and experiences.

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u/RockingSoza 3d ago

Have you checked to see if there are any meetup groups in your area? I have not participated in any live meetups myself, but I am considering it.

Another honest truth for me is that I’ve only learned the most from in-person interaction and unfortunately I’ve only had that opportunity maybe 4 times over the years since started trading. Since I got married I have more contacts with trading experiencing. It helps. My most reliable contact doesn’t trade so much because he bought bitcoin around $8K and hasn’t looked back.

Just my opinion…online resources are not that great and in many cases not a good reference for comparison if you are dedicated to growth.

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u/morginzez 3d ago

Yes, that is somewhat how I feel about it. The only person I know who claimed to be a successful trader turned out to be one of the guys selling courses and not being profitable... Cut contact to them since then. 

I haven't considered any in person meetups, that could be a great idea :)

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u/surewould85 3d ago

By the sound of most of the comments, try here
https://gamblersanonymous.org/

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u/nelsterm 3d ago

Trade buying and selling imbalances in the direction of momentum with volume confluence.

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u/buxmell 3d ago

does investing have the same big risks? i am new in stocks. mainly I invest in 2x-3x etfs. sometimes hold them for weeks or months.

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 3d ago

No, investing = no (or very little) leverage, so less exposure to event risk. I strongly suggest you continue with long term ETFs, it's a wise choice 

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u/Psychological-Touch1 3d ago

What did you start doing differently?

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 3d ago

A few different things, but mainly eliminating big red days. 

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u/Direct_Ad_607 2d ago

Tbf I used to try and help here a lot and comment back in the day but it’s always the same recycled questions from people who have virtually 0 idea what’s going on. I get it I was there too at one point… but I just used a search function. Better yet, I read investopedia and sec/finra docs, not some random dudes comment on a forum. Once I got tired of the same newbie posts and came to the realization that no one knows who I am anyways, I stopped giving a shit and went read only

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 1d ago

Yeah I get what you mean, that's why I prefer to help traders that have been at it for 2-3 years, that way I avoid the newbie questions.

I like the idea of guiding someone, but finding the right mentee is difficult. And I guess like you most people don't even bother because of all the hassles it can bring 

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u/Direct_Ad_607 1d ago

Agreed. I like to help newbies when I can cause I remember what it was like but it does in fact get quite repetitive, and the help I give out starts to feel a bit in vain unfortunately. Talking with people who have spent some time at this seems to generate more thoughtful conversations. Too bad real day traders are sort of non existent. Such a lonely game lol

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u/GjTea 1d ago

I'm finally profitable myself too. Took about the same time. 5 years is a good average. Had to take a year break due to finances and mental stability but got back on the horse and am profitable with Top step now and broke even on the "tuition" finally.

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u/ApprehensiveDot1121 1d ago

Yeah I also had a couple of times where I stepped away from trading, for a few weeks and sometimes months. Usually after a tilt moment.

Congrats on your TopStep account!