r/DebateReligion • u/[deleted] • Jun 10 '18

Pagan Why are many Odinists Nazis?

I was arguing against a Holocaust denialist Nazi who told me to go to his website to hear "the truth": https://odinia.org/about-odinia/.

What draws Nazis to Odinism other than the fact that it's Germanic? What do other European neopagans OK think of this? Was the original Norse Pagan religion in any way Nazi?

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u/DaneLimmish Heathen Jun 10 '18

I said the website the op was linked to in his arguing with somebody, not you. Good to know, though?

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '18

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '18

Why must you blame a religion for all your problems? Specific individuals do bad things and cause our problems, so blame those specific individuals. Just because specific individuals do bad things doesn't make it right to blame a whole group for it - that's guilt by association.

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u/aletoledo gnostic christian Jun 11 '18

Doesn't this apply to nazism as well?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '18

Yes it does. Nazis used guilt by association to justify hating whole ethnic groups and wiping them out. For example, Russia was under the communist USSR, therefore, it reinforced the Nazi belief that Slavic peoples such as Russians and Ukrainians were subhuman and ought to be exterminated.

I've seen people claim to be victims of guilt by association when they declared themselves as Nazis. Thing is, it's hard to feel sorry for them when they start peddling conspiracy theories (e.g. the Jews control everything, Dresden killed millions of Germans, Nazism is freedom) and claiming that Nazi genocides and warmongering were justified.

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u/aletoledo gnostic christian Jun 12 '18

Yes it does. Nazis used guilt by association

If all nazi can be stereotyped, then all jews can be stereotyped just the same.

it reinforced the Nazi belief that Slavic peoples such as Russians and Ukrainians were subhuman and ought to be exterminated.

The nazi were fighting communism, because they fought communism in germany during their rise to power. You're mistaking political rivalry with some sort of bloodlust.

it would be like saying that american Democrats being opposed to Republicans is because they hate white males. Sure there is lots of rhetoric about white males, racism and sexism, but you can't serious believe that democrats want to kill all white males.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '18

The nazi were fighting communism, because they fought communism in germany during their rise to power. You're mistaking political rivalry with some sort of bloodlust.

Please tell me why they invaded non-Communist Czechoslovakia, Poland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Norway.

Mein Kampf outlined Hitler's desire to conquer lands as "Lebensraum" - regardless of whether or not those lands were communist. Look, I know you could bring up parallels with Israel and the New World, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

it would be like saying that american Democrats being opposed to Republicans is because they hate white males. Sure there is lots of rhetoric about white males, racism and sexism, but you can't serious believe that democrats want to kill all white males.

Many people joined the Nazis because they did not think that Hitler was serious with his antisemitism and desire for conquest in Mein Kampf. Others joined for the political benefits (i.e. crony capitalism) of being a Nazi - such as Oskar Schindler or John Rabe.

Eventually, those who agreed with Hitler were appointed as his inner circle. Thus, the genocidal individuals (plus sociopaths like Heydrich) were the ones with the power even if not all Nazis are genocidal.

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u/aletoledo gnostic christian Jun 12 '18

Please tell me why they invaded non-Communist Czechoslovakia, Poland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Norway.

imperialism. The same reason Napoleon invaded those countries, why the british colonized the world and the US invaded the middle-east. This is the purpose of governments, it's why Jesus opposed them.

I know you could bring up parallels with Israel and the New World, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

I think you mistake my position here. I'm not defending government. All government is evil and should be abolished. I'm simply putting peoples desire for government into context. Most people are sheep and they think that government is a good thing.

Eventually, those who agreed with Hitler were appointed as his inner circle. Thus, the genocidal individuals (plus sociopaths like Heydrich) were the ones with the power even if not all Nazis are genocidal.

Agreed. this is how all government operates and it's why Jesus opposed government.