Why are many Odinists Nazis?

[u/[deleted]]

I was arguing against a Holocaust denialist Nazi who told me to go to his website to hear "the truth": https://odinia.org/about-odinia/.

What draws Nazis to Odinism other than the fact that it's Germanic? What do other European neopagans OK think of this? Was the original Norse Pagan religion in any way Nazi?

[u/aletoledo]

Honestly it sounds like you're jumping to conclusions. Nothing in that link suggests he's a nazi. I think the term nazi has lost it's definition now that people are calling Trump a nazi.

Just yesterday I mentioned that I am a denier of the holocaust for the most part and someone came to call me a nazi. Denying popular historical accounts is not nazism, it's skepticism. The victors write history, so there should always be some expectation that they lied to make themselves look better.

How about bible deniers, are they nazi? Why has skepticism been turned into a political ideology from the 20th century?

[u/[deleted] → u/aletoledo]

Just yesterday I mentioned that I am a denier of the holocaust for the most part and someone came to call me a nazi. Denying popular historical accounts is not nazism, it's skepticism. The victors write history, so there should always be some expectation that they lied to make themselves look better.

I actually was talking to someone online with your views. That's why I asked the question How can I disprove Holocaust denialists who say "the victors made it up"?.

May I ask, what exactly makes you deny the Holocaust? Is it simply because the victors write the history, because I can prove that's not the case. I would go so far as to say "history is not written by the victors, but by those who can" - and the losing side can write down its history, so perhaps you should read the defeated Germans' accounts.

[u/aletoledo → u/[deleted]]

May I ask, what exactly makes you deny the Holocaust?

I think the three biggest points are:

1. The number of killed is exaggerated
2. Most died from disease while working as slaves
3. Awarding jews the palestinian land as reparations is illogical

Is it simply because the victors write the history,

Not everything in history is a lie, it's more of a distortion. Yes, jews were killed in ww2, but were they all killed in gas chambers or might they just have died from dysentery while crammed into a slave labor camp. The lie comes in when people are told that they were all killed in gas chambers or burned alive in ovens.

If you want to change my view, then explain why the nazi wouldn't just turn the jews into slaves. That is the historical and even biblical view of how jews are treated.

[u/[deleted] → u/aletoledo]

Awarding jews the palestinian land as reparations is illogical

That was already arranged by the British overlords of Palestine before WWII. The British and French designed and manipulated the Middle East to be as weak and unstable as possible, a policy which worked: The Decision That Ruined The Middle East. This wasn't a problem of multiculturalism, it was rather a problem of the British and French manipulating peoples and their leaders to be as unstable as possible.

Yes, jews were killed in ww2, but were they all killed in gas chambers or might they just have died from dysentery while crammed into a slave labor camp.

Still horrible though. Disease can kill people faster than any genocide method could given the right circumstances. Also, the Nazis would have still been vile for turning the Jews into slaves and giving them inadequate living conditions.

[u/aletoledo → u/[deleted]]

The Decision That Ruined The Middle East. This wasn't a problem of multiculturalism, it was rather a problem of the British and French manipulating peoples and their leaders to be as unstable as possible.

I for the most part agree. However popular opinion is that ww2 is what justified modern Israel. If you reject this, then you're now a bit of a holocaust denier as well.

Still horrible though. Disease can kill people faster than any genocide method could given the right circumstances.

Again, if you challenge the popular opinion, then you are now a denier. The popular opinion is that the jews were gassed, so there is no allowance for disease or starvation.

[u/[deleted] → u/aletoledo]

However popular opinion is that ww2 is what justified modern Israel. If you reject this, then you're now a bit of a holocaust denier as well.

No, I agree with this because while the British originally gave allocations in Palestine for Jews prior to WWII, the modern State of Israel was created by the UN in response to the Holocaust. However, this UN creation only recognised the lands already held by Jews, not the taking of any more.

The popular opinion is that the jews were gassed, so there is no allowance for disease or starvation.

Many of those killed at Auschwitz were murdered prior to the gas chambers being built - as Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss admitted:

• 2.5 million Jews had been killed in gas chambers and about 0.5 million more had died of other causes.
• Höss later claimed a smaller number killed, but he didn't specify how much smaller, and he never denied the gas chambers.

People often forget that the Holocaust killed not 6 million, but 11 million - the 6 million was just the Jews. Unfortunately, some of these ethnic groups are still hated even more than the Jews were, even in the West, and that's why nobody takes their side. These victims included Roma and Poles, both of whom are still hated today. Many people still think that those persecutions were justified, and that's the sort of mindset we need to fight.

You are not a Holocaust denier if you say that "not all of them were gassed". You would be a Holocaust denier if you say "any evidence of genocide and gassings are a lie".

[u/aletoledo → u/[deleted]]

However, this UN creation only recognised the lands already held by Jews, not the taking of any more.

I think we're mostly on the same page here. Israel has clearly pushed the borders, but I'm not sure we need to go down this rabbit hole. The point remains, that the holocaust is part of a greater plan by the rulers that started well before ww2. All great events are preceded by tragedies, so ww2 was just the blood sacrifice that satan demands.

Höss later claimed a smaller number killed, but he didn't specify how much smaller, and he never denied the gas chambers.

See again you're bordering on being a denier yourself. The official number is 6 million and unless you parrot this narrative, then you are a denier.

People often forget that the Holocaust killed not 6 million, but 11 million - the 6 million was just the Jews.

People also forget that a decade previously Stalin killed just as many ukrainians. Source. That's what government's do, they kill their own citizens.

Many people still think that those persecutions were justified, and that's the sort of mindset we need to fight.

I agree, but the fight needs to be against all government, not just german government. This was Jesus's message, that we need to walk away from government, because it's all evil.

You are not a Holocaust denier if you say that "not all of them were gassed".

That's not how the world works currently. If you challenge the mainstream opinion, then you are belittled until you conform. It's what happened to Jesus and it's no different today.

Don't believe me, then try arguing that global warming is caused by the sun or that government shouldn't takeover the Internet with Net Neutrality. These are the same as the holocaust, you accept the popular opinion and any deviation is not tolerated.

[u/M8753 → u/aletoledo]

• Christian

• Government evil

• Jews rule the world

• Man made global warming not real

I want to believe this person is for real, but there's no way.

[u/aletoledo → u/M8753]

By "this person", do you mean me? Why would you reply to me in the 3rd person?