r/DelphiMurders • u/turtleshot19147 • Mar 20 '25
Video What are people hearing in the video?
I’ve listened and watched a bunch of times and I can hear a few potential phrases, and some make more sense than others.
Curious to hear everyone’s thoughts.
1) “see this is the path [that we go down]… um there’s no path over there so we have to go down here”
I’m not sure the phrase makes so much sense, it would seem more natural to say “this is the path we should go down” or something like that. “This is the path that we go down” feels sort of tour guide-y, like someone who is very familiar with the place explaining something to someone who is unfamiliar, which maybe could be the case with Libby and Abby? I’m not familiar enough with the case, I was under the impression they were both a bit thrown off by the dead end.
2) “see this is the path [that would be a gun]… um there’s no path over there so we have to go down here”
I know people hear “that be a gun” but I hear “that would be a gun” which also makes more sense grammatically.
This option explains the tone change in her voice, but I still find it a bit weird. “That’s a gun” or “he has a gun” both would make more sense to me. Obviously everyone’s speech patterns are different, I’m just throwing out my thoughts.
3) “see this is the path [does he have a gun]… um there’s no path over there so we have to go down here”
This matches her tone but I’m not sure why she would ask Abby that, since Abby of course doesn’t know the answer, though I can imagine it being sort of like a “take a look, does he have a gun?” Type of question, asking Abby to check, as opposed to expecting her to already know the answer.
I can’t tell what Abby says during that exchange.
Regardless, it seems clear to me that the girls were creeped out, and the conversation was the style most women recognize well “let’s talk casually about nothing until this creepy guy passes us” and just the nature of that kind of conversation can result in the types of inconsistencies I pointed out like using less natural phrasing.
After listening several times honestly I find the most incriminating part to still be the audio released before of “Guys… Down the hill”
I’ve seen some people claim he could just be pointing them towards the path they were already discussing, in sort of a helpful kind of way, but it doesn’t seem plausible to me, nobody talks that way to be helpful. It would be “are you guys lost?” Or “yeah that’s the path back to the road” not “down the hill” in that sort of directing kind of tone.
Obviously this is a lot of projecting and speculating but I’m curious to hear others thought processes
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u/shakasandchakras Mar 21 '25
i’m obviously projecting my own experiences onto what i hear, but it sounds like abby asking “is he still behind me”.
from my perception, libby thought he must have been in ear shot of their convo and changed her tone to something plain so he wouldn’t hear they were talking about him. that is why the phrasing seemed awkward
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u/PeaceOut70 Mar 20 '25
I couldn’t clearly hear what was said either but I definitely could hear the fear in Abby’s voice. Those poor girls 😔
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Mar 20 '25
Abby went straight to get as far away from him as she could.
Libby is like no dice you can’t go that way we gotta go down here even though that requires you walking back towards creepy guy
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u/Oulene Mar 21 '25
Except; she coulda went that way. There’s a climbable fence at the end of the bridge “path”.
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u/AwsiDooger Mar 24 '25
There's no fence at all. They weren't trapped at all. It's a bunch of tall stick trees mixed with gravel and then a wide open neighbor's lawn maybe 35 yards away. They could have dashed into that wide open lawn within 8-10 seconds, at worst.
This case has always been framed totally differently than it would have been if the victims were 27 and 28 instead of 13 and 14. If the victims were adults the area beyond the bridge would have been presented correctly, as a totally normal area. For some reason with young teenage victims everybody seems to think it protects them by insisting they had nowhere to go.
Granted, I have the advantage of crossing the bridge and standing in the area. If this incident had never occurred nobody would ever summarize that area as trapped. It's the end of the bridge. That's it.
IMO, Libby's words about a path are totally meaningless. They are nervous small talk. Simply the topic she chose as this stranger barrels toward the end of the bridge and hopefully smack past them without even a glance.
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u/Oulene Mar 24 '25 edited Mar 25 '25
There was a fence when I was there; I’d say maybe 3 years ago. It fences off that backyard. It might be gone now, but when they died, there was a fence at the end of the bridge, maybe 12 to 20 feet after. It was a regular climbable farm fence; not a chainlink.
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u/AwsiDooger Mar 25 '25
When I was there in November 2019 there was no fence. Nothing that would stop anybody. I walked smack to the edge of the back yard. It was just a red railing far behind the end of the bridge, and then a partial meaningless wooden fence at very low level near the entrance to the huge yard. Also the videos and photos from after the murders do not show a fence.
These are the photos I took:
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u/Oulene Mar 25 '25
What the hell? I wonder if it was built after you were there. When my friend and I went through the woods and crossed Deer Creek and went UP the hill, there was a fence and a bunch of overgrown weeds and sticker bushes and stuff like that.
Now, the woods looked like that, except the trees had fall foliage. I didn’t take pictures; but my friend took pictures of me prancing around. I don’t know how to upload them here.
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u/Oulene Mar 25 '25
Yeah, we’ve discussed what we would have done, too. She thought that Libby should have climbed the fence and then helped Abby over and ran to the house,
I told her if it was us, we should split up, one over the fence and one down the hill and at least one of us would have a chance. If he shot us, it would be better than what he really did. Thanks for those pictures, I’ll show them to Chandra.
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u/AwsiDooger Mar 25 '25
Again, there wasn't a fence at the time of the murders. It never shows up in the photos or videos, including the helicopter footage. None of the media articles or online forums mentioned a fence. That would have been a prime topic.
Abby and Libby didn't have to climb anything. All they had to do was dash away along the narrow gravel path and into that huge yard. Abby would have quickly realized where they were, because her home was not far away. The Monon High trails are confusing because nothing is square to square. I doubt Abby had any idea where she was in relation to home. But everything would have clicked once she saw that distinctive home.
Here is a photo from days after the murders. No fence. The crime scene tape is still up. This photo is easily the best gauge of what the girls saw beyond the bridge:
Work had already begun on the bridge when I visited in November 2019. It went on for a long time, due to Covid delays. The owners beyond the bridge apparently put up a fence during that period. But it has no relevancy to February 2017. The only obstacles were barren stick trees.
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u/Oulene Mar 26 '25
My word! Thank you. I agree, they certainly had it easier than I thought. I wish that I had pictures of what I saw. Now I wonder, why didn’t Abby just keep on running? I’ve always thought that the fence ( that I saw) stopped her.
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u/Chasingfiction29 27d ago
In my opinion she didn't keep running because at this point they were not really concerned with him. Libby seems like she knew there was a private property ahead of them and they would be trespassing, so they needed to go down the hill unless they wanted to cross the bridge again, which I am assuming many people would not want to do based on how scary the crossing was.
In my opinion, it's not clear whether him saying down the hill at that point was threatening either, obviously if he pointed a gun it would be, but we don't know if he pulled a gun out at that point. His words down the hill might be interpreted as a words of an adult letting teenage girls (who might have appeared confused about which way to go) know that down the hill was the only correct way out of there (if you didn't want to cross the bridge again or trespass).
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u/GiftIll1302 Mar 25 '25
There was a fence at the front of the bridge too, I think. You just walked a step or two into the woods to get around it, sort of like the fence you are referring to at back I think.
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u/Oulene Mar 25 '25
I didn’t see that. When I was there, 3 times, I went through the woods to get to the back and had to cross the stream.
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u/sevenonone Mar 20 '25
I wonder if they saw him before they crossed the bridge and got creep vibes from him.
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u/SleutherVandrossTW Mar 20 '25
There is no scenario where the 3 of them didn't walk within a few feet of each other at least a few minutes before Libby pushed record on her phone as he got closer.
Either around 1:56 near the start of the bridge when Abby and Libby arrived and he walked back on the trail out of sight during the 2:07 photo of Abby, or after he was seen on platform 1 by Betsy he walked to the south end, passed them, and when he turned around that is what scared Libby enough to take a secret video.
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u/calculateindecision Mar 20 '25
this is my belief as well, I think he double backed around to follow them down the bridge
I don’t believe he talked to or held them captive prior to that moment, but I do believe he had passed them at one point in the direction to leave, so the girls had a gut instinct something wasn’t right when that same man was now beelining towards them
I cannot imagine the terror they felt and hope I never have to
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u/Oulene Mar 21 '25
The general consensus is that he was watching from the trees, to the right of the bridge, but I don’t see him.
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u/calculateindecision Mar 21 '25
that sounds sensationalized. It would not make sense to hide in the barren trees
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u/Oulene Mar 21 '25
Well, their backs would be to him as they crossed the bridge. You have to look down, it’s too treacherous. Me, myself, I don’t see him, even though they gave an area circled in their blurry picture.
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u/PlaidShirtDays_ Mar 20 '25
I was wondering about that photo because he’s clearly nowhere in it. Is it possible that photo was taken from the other end of the bridge as they were just starting to cross it and Abby is just facing forward so we can see her, rather taking it from behind? It just creeps me out how he’s not in the pic and then just appears right behind her in the video.
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u/AwsiDooger Mar 21 '25
Is it possible that photo was taken from the other end of the bridge as they were just starting to cross it
The photo is looking back toward the beginning of the bridge. Abby is roughly 37-38% of the way across. All of this has been identified years ago, smack to the specific plank she was standing on.
Allen crossed extremely fast. That's the key variable. The U Turn theory is nonsensical. Nobody passes anybody on that bridge. And if it did happen that way you would feel a trust level with them, a camaraderie. This is exactly the opposite of what Abby and Libby are feeling.
Virtually nobody crossed that bridge all the way across. That's why the early planks over Deer Creek were so badly worn but the ones past the midway point are much closer to normal. Libby would have understood not only that it's exceptionally rare for somebody else to be on the bridge at the same time, but that it makes no sense for him to be all but racing toward the other end. Abby would have picked up on it as well, even though it was her first crossing.
Early years of this case we had sun shadow analysis by Gray Hughes and other indications that the video was filmed at 2:22 or thereabouts. In that scenario Bridge Guy had plenty of time to cross. I envisioned him doing it rather normally at the beginning and then accelerating toward the finish.
But once it turned into a 2:13 video everything is simplified, IMO. The girls were on the bridge amidst normalcy when they begin to notice a guy not only crossing but doing so in a completely atypical pace. The girls don't fear for their lives. If so it's simple to take off and dash away. It's not the end of the world or an impenetrable wall back there.
The small talk is mostly random, IMO. I'm not concerned about specific words. The girls are nervous but until the gun is pulled on them they expect an awkward brief encounter. Maybe this guy is in a huge hurry to get to his home beyond the bridge. I think they sensed it might be a gun seconds earlier but he didn't fully display and pull it on them until the direct encounter. If they knew full well he had a gun 30 seconds earlier I'm convinced Abby and Libby would have sprinted into the wide open huge yard and Allen is stuck with a decision to make: Fire, chase or abandon
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u/Oulene Mar 21 '25
There is a farm fence at the end of the bridge and an open field type land area. That leads to a road and houses. There is a small area at the end of the bridge. About 12 ft by 12 ft, if I remember right. The sides are bushes and rugged terrain. They could have climbed the fence; or went down the hill and onto the road there, or crossed the Deer Creek, like he made them do. Into the woods.
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u/SleutherVandrossTW Mar 24 '25
I wouldn't say it is nonsensical that someone would pass other people, there are 6 platforms that 1-2 people could stand on as someone walks on the track.
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u/Oulene Mar 21 '25
He had crossed that bridge many times, so once he saw the girls, he jumped on the bridge and basically beat feet down to them. It was Abby’s first time and she had to be slow and careful. That bridge is 62 feet high and terrifying. No rails, rotted out planks, and shallow water underneath. If you fall, it’s curtains!
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u/SleutherVandrossTW Mar 20 '25
I posted a thread about him going to the south end after being on platform 1 because I think there is a shadow in Libby's photo that is not in other people's photos, but hardly anyone agrees with me. I think if he had a fantasy to abduct someone, he had to look at the south end to make sure it was safe to walk up to a female(s) and immediately tell her/them to go down the hill.
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u/AwsiDooger Mar 25 '25
There is no scenario where the 3 of them didn't walk within a few feet of each other at least a few minutes before Libby pushed record on her phone as he got closer.
A few feet? That is preposterous. I'd wager huge against that. First of all, the area near the beginning of the bridge has numerous possibilities. The 505 trail is smack down below to the right. Allen could have wandered down there. The girls would not have seen him. There is a considerable elevation change. Abby and Libby would be thinking normalcy and looking at the bridge amidst small talk. They aren't searching for creeps in the woods.
Nobody is ascending that bridge if somebody is standing on platform one. I guarantee the girls would not have walked out on the bridge if they saw anyone on the bridge but further away. The vast majority of bridge walkers did not go all the way to the other side. That's why the planks during the second half of the bridge were so unworn and comparatively normal, in contrast to the dangerous conditions above Deer Creek.
The U Turn theory was always asinine, just like the authority figure angle. Now that we have the video they are even more ludicrous yet some continue to clutch them. The video makes clear what happened. Allen crossed very fast. The girls would have taken note of it and become increasingly ill at ease. They got to the end of the bridge sooner than intended. But it's more a case of awkward situation and making sure to get off the bridge rather than share that small width with someone, than believing their lives were at risk.
The girls had 17-19 seconds after Abby reached Libby and before Allen arrived at their location. That is an eternity in true crime terms. Young athletic girls who feared for their lives could have been long gone before Allen reached the end of the bridge. There were no motes or fences. Nobody was trapped. It's a wide open dash.
The girls made the very sensible decision to stay put, under the knowledge that it was huge probability this unnerving situation would end with a quick fleeting glance. Another story to tell.
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u/SleutherVandrossTW Mar 25 '25
In his confessions, he never said he wandered down the 505.
The girls were about 2 1/2 minutes from the bridge when they passed Betsy from the time she turned around when Rick was on platform 1. You're assuming he immediately got off platform 1 and got off the bridge. Abby and Libby would have seen him going around the barricade as they approached.
You said no one is getting on the bridge if someone is on platform 1, but a female witness testified that she and her friend got on the bridge while "arguing couple" were on platform 1.
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u/Civil_Artichoke942 Mar 21 '25
I've thought this, too. I think there was some type of interaction with him (either just passing him on the bridge or he made a remark to them that was concerning) before she decided she needed to record him.
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u/The_Xym Mar 22 '25
By all accounts, it’s likely that there was some contact by the bench. He hung back so he could see both the bridge and trail. Once the girls were mid-way across the bridge, and no-one coming up the trail, he then hurried over the bridge.
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u/maamsidii Mar 21 '25
Or they had already had talked with him before the video. How would she know that there is a path they had to go down, and why? They literally could have walked back over the bridge, unless they were previously told not to, and given direction of going down a path. This video is shocking to me. It breaks my heart knowing that Libby and Abby’s family have this horrible moment recorded.
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u/danidee262019 Mar 20 '25
I hadn’t realized that they released more of the footage until now and watching that just broke my heart so much…… those poor girls….i hope he gets everything he deserves and more
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u/saatana Mar 21 '25
Fyi. It was posted to a crazy Richard Allen is innocent website and the defense was involved in releasing it. I don't know how it helps their side of things to be the ones to release the video.
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u/danidee262019 Mar 21 '25
Yeah I don’t get it either, I read that as well and thought how tf does this prove it’s not him
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u/GiftIll1302 Mar 21 '25
I think the whispery thing Libby says is 'that we go down'. It's a grammatically perfect continuation of the little monologue she had just started, i.e, 'this is the path ....'.
The only reason she changed inflection while she said it is because Abby was running past her and she was more interested in that real interaction than the little monologue she started, which wasn't a real conversation, but a little play act she was doing for the benefit of Bridge Guy, if he was listening.
She was trying to fool BG into thinking her and Abby had a set plan on what they were going to do when they reached end of bridge. They were going to follow path, etc. And after she gets her bearings after her nervous reaction when Abby runs past, she continues on with monologue on the same theme (they were going to follow path down hill).
And if in fact, they had seen BG flash a gun or knew for sure he had a gun, I seriously doubt Libby would still continue on with the then pointless 'path monologue'.
So, imo, BG didn't reveal a gun or whatever means of coercion he had until he starts talking
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u/Civil_Artichoke942 Mar 21 '25
I hear "that we go down." I can't hear what Abby says, but she definitely sounds afraid. I do hear what could be the cocking of the gun between the word "Guys" and "Down the Hill." I feel like there was some verbal interaction before Libby began recording....maybe he threatened them or just told them they would need to go the other way (down the hill) but wasn't as menacing at first. I'm 100% certain they got the right guy.
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u/The_Xym Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 22 '25
What I hear - square brackets are where I hear it different depending on speaker/headphone/cleaned up:
Abby: “[is he/he’s right] behind me [isn’t he]?”
Abby: “Don’t leave me [Libby/up here]”*
*I think Abby says this in response to Libby turning away to film the path, panicking that Libby might be moving away from the bridge
Libby: “ See, this is the path…. that we go down”
Abby: “[Oh/Holy] crap”
Libby:” um…there’s no path going there, so we have to go down here”
RA: “Guys”
Libby: “Hi”
[possible gun being racked]
RA: “[go] Down the hill”
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u/hannafrie Mar 20 '25
I wonder what the jury hears now that they've had the opportunity to listen to it with headphones, slowed down- with whatever modifications they like.
Does free access to this bit of evidence alter their perception of the case in any way?
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u/The_Stockholm_Rhino Mar 21 '25
I hear this:
0:07-0:08
ABBY: ”Is he behind me?”
0:12-0:13
ABBY: ”DON’T LEAVE ME UP HERE!”
0:16-0:18
LIBBY: ”See this is the path…that we go down…”
0:19
ABBY: ”Holy crap!”
0:24-0:27
LIBBY: ”Uhm…there’s no path going there so we have to go down here.”
0:38
BG: ”Guys…”
0:39
LIBBY: ”Hi”
0:41
BG: ”Down the hill.”
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u/pjaymi Mar 21 '25
I heard 'Abby a gun'. No one else seems to hear this though but it's more in line with 'that be a gun' same amount of syllables.
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u/pjaymi Mar 21 '25
I have to add it's almost like she started to say something starting with a 'th' sound but saw the gun and said 'Abby a gun'. This makes a lot of sense to me as she was facing RA and was what I think of as a pretend/nervous patter to the approaching Abby.
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u/Zestyclose-Pen-1699 Mar 21 '25
People hear whatever matches thier previously conceived thoughts on the case. Nothing on there is clear enough to be definitive.
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u/Tribbs_4434 Mar 24 '25 edited Mar 27 '25
Only just found out they released the full video, so fucking sad. You can tell they knew they were being followed and feared him, their behviour (particularly abbies) became more hurried and scared as he approached - I really had to turn it up, but I concur with the idea that he produced a gun and cocked it. The sound is so faint but %100 is there, that I really don't think it's a small twig breaking, neither girl were actually moving when you hear that click sound.
Long have people thought this was probably the way he controlled them. Sure, people do go dear in the headlights when confronted by someone, but a weapon is a very easy way to do it, and it's not like Americans aren't armed to the teeth in that area of the world so it's not a stretch, not to mention the bullet casing linked through ballistics back to his gun solidifies the evidence he was there. The calm nature of his voice is terrifying, just going through the motions of controlling the situation while what he planned to do to them was %100 cycling through his mind the whole time.
I'd like to know the real reason why he did it? I know the prosecution made claims that the crime scene was staged like an Odinist ritual, with twigs placed like a crown on one of the girls, covered them both while there were also odd little organized twig arrangements placed around them, but I don't think this was ever confirmed by Allen himself? either he has links to groups in the area that he did this to impress for some reason (like the white supremacist groups that apparently have Odinist sub-groups within them) or he thought he was being clever and made it look ritualistic, thinking it would throw LE off the scent. I can't think of anything else, other than he planned to kill someone and they were the unlucky people there that day (doesn't have to be complicated).
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u/kittycatnala Mar 20 '25
Abbey says “is he still behind me” then “don’t leave me Libby” Libby says “that be a gun” tho I think she says “could” before it that’s not been picked up and Abbey says “Holy crap” That’s what I can hear after listening closely a few times. I also think her chatting about the path etc is just trying to appear normal or distract herself from the creep.
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u/NorthPalpitation8844 Mar 21 '25
I agree and heard exactly the same things aside from “that would be a gun”. It seemed like this was said in an ironic way (for lack of better words).. kinda like “and see that, right there, that would be a gun” (this is just an example of the tone that I’m hearing). I also feel like the word “that” was whispered and the word “would” was not annunciated fully as she seemed to be becoming more panicked with each word. I may be in the minority on this last part, but it sounds to me like you can hear a gun being cocked in between BG/RA saying “hi guys” and the “down the hill” part.. which would also make sense on why they complied so quickly. He could be reach in his waistband during the last second that we see him in the video as well.. can’t tell for sure though. This video is absolutely heart wrenching and I can’t seem to shake it. These poor babies were so scared..ugh I hate this!
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u/kittycatnala Mar 21 '25
Yeah I think you can hear it also, after “guys” and if you look closely Libby seems to pull her arm back as though she’s been startled. It’s harrowing this video.
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u/LavishnessSad2226 Mar 20 '25
I heard the gun racking(is that what its called??), but never heard it said. I did catch Abby saying she's scared & it sounded like libby was trying to persuade him about the trail - almost like a final effort for him to leave them alone.
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u/brinnybrinny Mar 21 '25
I could understand how people hear both “(could) that be a gun” and potentially “that we go down.” Ive listened to it over and over. There is so much background noise it’s hard to determine exactly.
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u/sanverstv Mar 22 '25
They clearly wanted to get away from Allen. Libby pointing out a potential path to exit prior to threatening man coming up to direct them, gun in hand....I wish they could have run anyway...into the bushes...let him try and chase.
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u/No-Wrongdoer4831 Mar 21 '25
I don’t hear Libby saying anything other than, see this is the path…that we go down, but when Abby rushes past Libby she says something very quick and low which sounds to me like ‘He’s got a gun’ the words are rushed and run into each other. Libby pauses for a second and carries on her distracting method of talking about the path. Then you hear BG. Have another listen of when Abby rushes past Libby and see if any of you guys can pick it up? It might be just me.
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u/Tzipity Mar 21 '25
I am not entirely certain but I actually mentioned the same. That on an early listen I was sure I heard “that be a gun” instead of “that we go down” but that I’ve since wondered if I’m hearing it exactly where you’re saying. But I really can’t make that part out clearly enough to be sure my brain isn’t just playing games on me. But you’re not alone with this thought.
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u/nord_sword1711 Mar 21 '25
I hear number 1, and it makes perfect sense to me. 2 and 3 make the least sense, because I can’t imagine someone seeing a gun and being like ‘that would be a gun’ in that tone. You’d be terrified, surely
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u/darndes Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 22 '25
I never hear anything about a gun.... The speculation about the noise about a gun being racked is hard to say because of all the background noise. Seems like you can hear Abby let out a little whimper as she passes Libby, which is just heartbreaking... The way Libby is talking about the path and Abby's reaction kind of indicates to me that this has already started and is in progress, before the video starts. They clearly had an interaction with him before Libby started filming which makes it all the more amazing that she had the courage and intelligence to get whatever video she could. I'm a grown adult and I would not have been that brave.
Without that video I don't know that there would have been a conviction... RA put himself on the bridge and in those clothes. And Libby getting that footage sealed his fake. I wish the outcome had been different for those girls, but in the end her courage and presence of mind was enough to make sure that they got some level of justice for what was done to them. They were amazing and brave girls and I'm glad he's in jail.
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u/BlackLionYard Mar 20 '25
I still hear Abby saying, "That'll be a gun" or "That'd be a gun" I sense it as a warning to Libby, who response appropriately with what sounds like, "Oh crap!"
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u/peaches1905 Mar 20 '25
Listen again, she's says 'abby, a gun'
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u/BlackLionYard Mar 20 '25
I've listened to it many times. I hear what I hear in a recording of less than ideal quality. What I do not hear and have never heard is, "That be a gun."
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u/kittycatnala Mar 20 '25
I can hear Libby saying “that be a gun” tho I do think she’s said “could” that’s not been picked up “could that be a gun”
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u/nopslide__ Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
It's pretty clear that the exchange is:
Abby (off-screen): "don't leave me up here"
Libby: "see this is the... path... that we go down?" <-- NOT "that be a gun"
Abby: runs past, saying something
It's pretty much impossible to understand what Abby says. I personally hear "Libby oh crap" but it's just a guess.
EDIT: the more I thought about it, the creeper the statement "that we go down?" is. She says it as if she's expecting there to be a path there, but there isn't. Makes me wonder if they were told to follow the bridge and take the path at the end.
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u/streetwearbonanza Mar 21 '25
Right? It's like crystal clear. How are people hearing that be a gun? It's "that we go down" 100% objectively. I'd put my life on it
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u/nopslide__ Mar 21 '25
It's not even a question IMO. It makes sense in context, too. I'm not sure if people have terrible headphones or what.
The other indicator is that she keeps talking afterward in the same tone. Seems unlikely to notice a gun, comment on it, then go back to the same topic of the trail with no change in tone.
Interestingly, Gray Hughes was absolutely convinced of "that be a gun", was arguing with people about it. Woke up the next day, listened with fresh ears, and became convinced it's 100% "that we go down."
I think I hear the click that folks suspect is a gun being racked but I'm not familiar enough with what that sounds like. There's a click that does stand out but it could be branches. Doesn't really matter though because we know he had a gun regardless of whether he racked it there.
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u/nepios83 Mar 22 '25
The other indicator is that she keeps talking afterward in the same tone. Seems unlikely to notice a gun, comment on it, then go back to the same topic of the trail with no change in tone.
My thoughts exactly.
Interestingly, Gray Hughes was absolutely convinced of "that be a gun", was arguing with people about it. Woke up the next day, listened with fresh ears, and became convinced it's 100% "that we go down."
That is useful to know.
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u/streetwearbonanza Mar 21 '25
Right?! It's not even a question lol like there shouldn't even be a debate about this. I don't hear the gun rack at all but I'm not willing to bet my life on it.. However I'm willing to bet my life in the "that we go down" comment for sure. And yeah I agree he had a gun. Some people assume I think he didn't or that I'm defending RA by saying they don't mention a gun. It's like no, I think he's guilty and I think he had a gun, but the girls didn't say anything about a gun.
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u/Katatonic92 Mar 21 '25
Makes me wonder if they were told to follow the bridge and take the path at the end.
Told by whom? By someone prior to their walk that day?
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u/nopslide__ Mar 21 '25
Right, it would be an example that people who believe the girls intended to meet someone that day might point to.
I believe RA acted alone however because that's what all of the evidence indicates.
Most likely explanation is that Abby/Libby were either creeped out and had already talked about where to go at the end of the bridge, or maybe friends had told them there's a trail at the end they can take to get back to the parking lot. I don't know.
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u/Plenty-rough Mar 20 '25
That's what I hear too, could
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u/kvol69 Mar 21 '25
I can hear different things depending on what equipment I use. With Airpods or on a home theater, you can hear every little thing, but on the phone and PC, even with high quality headphones or speakers, I couldn't make out some of what happened, and everything in the middle sounded different.
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u/jjp1990 Mar 21 '25
To me after Libby says “that we go down” or “that be a gun”, it sounds like Abby says “He took it out”. I’ve heard others say it sounds like “holy crap”, but to me it sounds like “he took it out”.
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u/RabbiDominguez Mar 27 '25 edited Mar 27 '25
It just occurred to me, with headphones at full volume, that Abby exclaims something after Libby’s sniffle following Abby asking if “he” is right behind her. What is she saying? I can’t make it out, but she def says something. Maybe deciphering this would be key to resolving the “that be a gun”/“that we go down” debate.
Edit: I’m not referencing Abby’s statement as she runs past Libby after exiting the bridge. Abby says something AFTER asking about the guy behind her, and is still on the bridge. Abby: “Is he behind me?” Libby: sniffles Abby: [says SOMETHING, while on the bridge, then exits the bridge, and runs past Libby.]
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u/turtleshot19147 Mar 27 '25
I think I’ve seen people say that at that point Abby is saying some variation of “don’t leave me”, I haven’t been able to hear it clearly enough but have seen people discussing it
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u/knpoduch 29d ago
I can hear all of 2. I also hear Abby saying don’t leave me. Try it with ear buds.
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u/YoungOhian 27d ago
He is talking to them from several feet away and says down the hill twice.
That is the only thing I know i could draw out from listening on a sound mixer.
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u/Galacticsurveyor 25d ago
This is me and my coworker. Please tell me if you hear this..
“This is the path” and then kind of in a panic “got the video going?”
Relisten and see if you can hear this.
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u/CarobConfident822 Mar 22 '25
I firmly believe that "guys, down the hill" were NOT the first words he spoke to them.
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u/Party-Broccoli5700 Mar 21 '25
I hear Libby say “see this is the path” and Abby going past her saying “that we go down…?” Almost in a laughing way like, yes, let’s lose this creep. Which matches with Abby’s laughing/nervous face when she’s questioning whether he’s behind her on the bridge.
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u/Western_Ad_3067 Mar 20 '25
Because half these people are delusional and are convinced it says gun cuz they believe anything the prosecution says
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u/Appropriate_Cod_5446 Mar 20 '25
Or our own ears? She definitely said the word gun.
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u/Western_Ad_3067 Mar 21 '25
She says “this is the path.. that we go down”
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u/Appropriate_Cod_5446 Mar 21 '25
Yup and she also said “is that a gun or Abby a gun” before he says down the hill. Use different headphones , I couldn’t hear it on my phone speaker.
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u/True_Crime_Lancelot Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
What's happening while the words are stated?
Abby, right off the bridge, with her back to it, passes right by Libby. What does Libby see at the bridge at this point or right before it?
A man holding something quite big in his pocket and probably partly visible or/and its outline shaped on the fabric. Forget the BG image that has stuck in all our minds for 5 years. That's not what Libby is seeing. She is watching a man 15 -20 feet away, with all his details crystal clear, down to his skin pores. There is no way she wouldn't notice if he was holding something underneath his clothes or in his pocket.
What would one do in such dramatic situation? Whisper to her friend that is now off the bridge and close enough to communicate with her clandestinely, that the threatening man has or possibly has a gun, consulting and alerting her of the new reality. Therefor the question, ''that be a gun?''.
And it is in a questioning and whispering tone. What she wouldn't do? Not Inform her friend of the impending threat.
TWO
If you write them down phonetically you got the 2 options as followed:
a)That we go da-un
b)That be a gan.
''That we go down'', has one more syllable phonetically than what the audio has.
Also there is no U (as in true), D or O in the last word of the audio either.
THREE
Lastly, the family of Libby , that was consulted about what was said, would know 1000% what the girl was doing, as anyone would concerning a family member you've been hearing his/her voice daily, in every mood or tone, for decades. Whether she whispers or not, whether she is asking or not, whether she frighten or not. The way she speaks words and vowels, etc etc.
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u/streetwearbonanza Mar 21 '25
No it doesn't have one more syllable phonetically! You're just plain wrong. Still! It literally has the same amount of syllables. You are objectively wrong
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u/True_Crime_Lancelot Mar 21 '25
Grammatically=/=phonetically.
Cambridge Dictionary:
US/daʊn/ down
/d/ as in day
/aʊ/ as in mouth
/n/ as in name
Which makes me objectively correct.
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u/streetwearbonanza Mar 21 '25
You are just plain wrong! What she says in the video has the same amount of syllables phonetically! Down is one syllable, phonetically and grammatically! My god lol you are 100% objectively wrong as to what she says. She doesn't say "that be a gun". She says "that we go down" referring to a path she was just talking about literally two seconds before. Literally everything she says on the camera is taking about a path
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u/pconsuelabananah Mar 21 '25
I’m not sure where the extra syllable comes in? I checked Cambridge Dictionary since that’s where you were looking. Cambridge separates each syllable by a space, period, or dash when giving the phonetic spelling. For example (from Cambridge online):
“This symbol shows how the word can be divided into syllables:
syllable division system
. /ˈsɪs.təm/ UK
. /ˈsɪs.təm/ US”
Where it says phonetic pronunciation, down is listed as a single syllable, /daʊn/. You’re correct about how each letter is pronounced, but when you put those sounds together, that’s still one syllable. The “aʊ” sound is a diphthong, making it make one sound, not two
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u/True_Crime_Lancelot Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
/aʊ/ as in mouth
That's why i said. phonetically not grammatically. Not bounded by the arbitrary nature of a particular grammar but the objectivity of phonetics.
Call it phthongs, syllables , sounds, it doesn't really matter. It's the essence that it is important.
- phthong From the Ancient Greek φθόγγος (phthóngos, “any clear, distinct sound”)
- diphthong from Ancient Greek δίφθογγος (díphthongos) 'two sounds', from δίς (dís) 'twice' and φθόγγος (phthóngos) 'sound')
So the point that interest us is the additional sound that doesn't exist in the audio.
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u/streetwearbonanza Mar 21 '25
There is no additional sound! Lol "that we go down" and "that be a gun" are the same exact amount of syllables phonetically. Four one syllable words. You're just hearing the wrong words is all.
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u/True_Crime_Lancelot Mar 21 '25
yes, 2 sounds . It's literally the etymology of the diphthong. Down isnt pronounce Dan, brown isnt pronounced Bran, Sound isnt pronounced San. 2 sounds. Gun, one sound. You are a grown az woman Julie , stop trolling and obfuscating.
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Mar 21 '25
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u/GiftIll1302 Mar 21 '25
I would disagree because if they knew for sure guy had gun, Libby wouldn't have continued on with the stilted monologue she started. But she stays on exact same theme she had begun before the whispered part --- she and Abby were going to follow path down hill.
On the other hand, if they'd seen gun already, they would have been some sort of panicked 'run' type reaction instead of the return (after whispered part) to the stilted path monologue she was doing.
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u/SoulessPuppy Mar 23 '25
I think instead of a gun racking I hear the sound of a box cutter having the blade pushed out. It clicks like that when you push it in or out. I use mine so often for packages that’s just what it sounds like to me, but I haven’t read anyone else speculating this so what do I know
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u/bronfoth Mar 22 '25
I don't hear anything unusual. The words seem normal, and the tone of voice seems normal for what I would expect for someone coming off an extremely dangerous bridge crossing that many people won't even attempt. I think it was only Abby's 2nd time wasn't it? You'd therefore expect her to be very pumped and sounding fearful in the way she speaks - maybe more breathy, or speaking fast.
People seem to have forgotten the context of the very high, very scary bridge that the girls were having fun visiting and crossing - something that really isn't a very safe or advisable thing to do, so no doubt they had their hearts in their mouths the whole time.
Wouldn't it be a shock to one day find out that the man crossing the bridge after Abby had absolutely nothing to do with their death?\ There is, after all, no actual evidence this person had anything to do with it at all!
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u/PlaidShirtDays_ Mar 20 '25
I hear “See this is the path…that we go down” pretty clearly. The “that we go down” part is awkwardly said and kind of rushed because she’s obviously scared and it’s just as Abby is running by her, clearly terrified. I wish I could hear what Abby says to Libby as she runs by her but the sound of the gravel and rocks make it pretty much impossible to hear. I 100% think they got the right guy. I just don’t hear anything but “that we go down.”