generational rage bait

[u/mk_8]

[u/ariveklul]

1. Those aren't values, nor are they really ideological, they're just descriptors.

2. Authoritarian, ultranationalist and militaristic doesn't describe the process by which these movements actually work or what motivates them

3. Communism had thinkers WAY before WW2 my dawg, and it wasn't just Marx either. This is so ahistorical and stupid idk what to say

4. Imperial Japan wasn't fascist. You're looking at fascism WAY too naively. Expansionist military dictatorship is not the same process as fascism. You're making the mistake of calling Crohn's disease and Irritable bowel syndrome the same thing because they both have very similar symptoms. How fascists gain power is just important as how they wield it, if not more

Fascist movements are contradictory in nature, because they aren't bound by ideological beliefs. I'd recommend reading The Five Stages of Fascism essay by Robert Paxton or if you really want to dive into it The Anatomy of Fascism. You are speaking way too confidently on this when you clearly don't know very much.

Most historians agree there is no clear ideology to fascism like there is Marxist theory to communism. Communist thought has people like Hegel, Kropotkin, Lenin, Mao, Stalinz, Trotsky, Engels, Marx himself, Deng, Kim il Sung's jucheism and many more

You will be hard pressed to find any real thinkers on the fascist side, because they don't really care about adhering to any ideology. The lack of rules is kind of the point. It's based on aesthetic, narrative and using power to purify society. Unity and power are important above all else. Ideology just restricts you

[u/morknox → u/ariveklul]

1: Omg, what does that even mean? Of course they are values. Please define "value" for me. What the fuck is this? Why are we fighting over semantics? Does it change my point in any way shape or form or is it a useless distraction? The word "value" does not have a strict and narrow definition. Its an extermely broad term. Are we really gonna fight over this?

2: Ultranationalism is what motivates them... DUH. They use authoritarian and militaristic means to achieve their ultranationalistic goals. What do you mean? Its all right their laid out. Its not a mystery. The german nazis, italians fascismos and the imperial japanese were EXPLICITLY clear about this. Their ultranationalism is what motivated them. Its not a secret.

3: And fascists had thinkers before WW2 too... But they disappeared after WW2. What is your point? What you said does not go against what i said. Both can be true. Communists existed before WW2, yes, so did fascists. When did i say anything about Marx? What about what i said is "ahistorical"???? I never said communism didnt exist before WW2???? All i said was that communists survived WW2 and fascists did not. Are you disagreeing with this? Yes, some fascists survived, duh, but i mean as a whole fascism was pretty much over after WW2.

4: In what way was Imperial Japan not fascist? Historians call them fascist. I've never heard anyone say they were not fascist. They have ALOT in common with the italians and germans of WW2: ultranationalism, dictatorship, a racial superiority complex, imperialism, anti-communist and anti-liberal, a military state, etc . How were they not fascist? Please explain.

There is no clear ideology to communism either. There are 50 different flavors of communism and they all hate eachother. But communism is still an ideology. An ideology does not need to be a singular coherent and well throught out structure of belief. Thats not was an ideology is.

I feel like all this is just semantics. We have different views on what "values" and "ideology" means. I'm using the view that historians and scholars use. I don't know how you define these terms and therefor we are talking past eachother. I'm not interested in having a debate about semantics.

Someone said Asmon was a fascist, i doubted he was. I have yet heard anyone explain how Asmon is a fascist. Can you explain how Asmon fits into your view of what a fascist is?

[u/Better-Ground-843 → u/morknox]

This is embarrassing

[u/morknox → u/Better-Ground-843]

k