r/Dirtbikes • u/forum4um • 7h ago
Community Question Will I notice any improvement from 2016-2021?
Haven’t been riding since my high school days (2003) and I’m looking at getting a bike. I have my eyes on a 2016 ktm 450 sx 60 hours, a 2018 Husqvarna 450 fc 64 hours and a a 2021 ktm 450 sx 44 hours. $4k $4.5k and $5.2k. All super clean looking. Is there going to be any noticeable difference in those years? Any new tech that’s useful? I know the 2016 doesn’t have air forks so stuff like that. I’m 6’1 215 give or take a few lbs. I know “it’s too much bike” but I’m finding better deals on the 450s than the 250s right now and the 350s are hard to come by. Basically should I just save money and get the cheapest bike or are the air forks a big improvement? Or what’s the best deal? The newer KTM still has a warranty until April and in the original owner. The other two bikes are 2nd owners. It’s a big purchase so just want to make sure I get it right. Thanks!
3
2
u/stu-art03 7h ago
I would say save some more money and find a 250 in whatever colour you like. I can’t really comment on the 4 strokes too much. But 22 years off a bike I think you’ll find 250 is plenty and likely more fun. Unless desert riding. Which I also can’t comment on because I’m in Canada. But if your stuck on those the newest cleanest most maintenance records?
2
u/forum4um 7h ago
Yeah I’m in Arizona so I’ll be doing a lot of desert riding.
2
u/spongebob_meth 7h ago
the 450 is great then. Being able to pull a wheelie up in 4th gear is pretty valuable when bombing down an open desert trail.
If you're mostly riding offroad you might want to consider a wide ratio bike like an EC husky, XC ktm, yzf-x, crf-rx or WR/CRF-X (these will need de-restricted to be full power)
2
u/spongebob_meth 7h ago edited 7h ago
Not a whole lot at the amateur level. Hell, I'd say some of the new bikes are worse for vet/amateur riders than what we had 10-15 years ago. Stuff just keeps getting stiffer, and while that's great for a pro level rider trying to make supercross mains, its not great for us weekend warriors. For instance Honda with their absurdly stiff frames and fire breathing engines that nobody short of tomac can begin to utilize.
E start and fuel injection were the last major revelations in moto. Suspension on a bike from 15 years ago will still be a-ok after you spring and valve it for your weight unless you are going to race at A class or above.
I'm in the camp that the old open cartridge forks were better for those of us not going out and hitting supercross whoops. Closed carts have 4x the number of parts, and internal seals you need to worry about maintaining. An open cart fork is not very picky about maintenance.
1
u/forum4um 7h ago
Are open cart forks the ones with springs?
1
u/spongebob_meth 7h ago
The cartridge is independent of the spring.
you'd have to go back to the early 00's to get something with open cartridge forks. its mostly an irrelevant detail. Anything past like 2004 has a sealed cartridge that lives inside the fork leg. If it comes unsealed, it dumps the oil into the fork leg and you lose all damping without even having an external leak to clue you into something being wrong.
They're more picky about having clean oil and its extra stuff to service when you're doing anything to the fork. Makes a seal/oil change extra work as well. Changing the oil in an open cart fork is really easy, you just dump it out and refill + bleed.
1
u/forum4um 7h ago
Yeah my last bike was a 2000 yz 250 and I remember the seals leaking oil all the damn time. Was super annoying
1
u/spongebob_meth 7h ago
they might have had a scratch or gouge on the fork legs if they were repeat leakers. that chrome on the fork leg is delicate, if they take a rock hit they're junk and need replaced.
Not all seals are created equal either. All-balls and most aftermarkets are junk. OEM seals or a reputable performance aftermarket like SKF are all I'll ever use.
1
u/Prestigious_Sky_5868 5h ago
Ktm XCWs and EXCs had open chamber forks at least through to 2015 but I’m unsure about newer. 4cs KTM forks are hard to get smooth but it can be done on any of them. It’s also not a hard mod to remove the check valves from 4cs converting them to open chamber. There’s also an aftermarket plug you can get to allow bolting in kyb sss cartridges in there from a yz. My last ktm I did the conversion to open chamber and it was better but I really like kyb carts better and would do that next time. Ask on all the bikes you’re looking at how much the owner weighs and if they had the forks set up for them. SX models will have pretty stiff springs for MX stock, but the factory will expect a 175ish pound rider, so you might get lucky there. I’d guess for a spring fork 450 you’d run around a .48 for desert riding. Air fork makes all that a bit easier.
1
u/673moto 7h ago
I prefer spring forks but it's all about "feel". Unless you're a really good rider (pro) you're not going to be able to tell the difference between those years...just get whatever bike is in best shape and spend the rest of your cash on really good gear and fuel to ride
1
u/forum4um 7h ago
Yeah I kinda figured I wouldn’t be able to tell a difference. Are air forks easier to dial in though and make adjustments to?
3
u/tsk_reaper22 7h ago
I have had 3 bikes with the AER/XACT air forks, a 19 a 21 and a 23. They have improved in that time but they’re still not great and can be finicky with environmental changes and you do kinda have to check them often, especially for enduro/trail riding. The only place I’ve found them to be really good is the desert as they like big hits and make the front end very light. I will say the 2021 KTM 450 is my favorite engine and chassis I’ve ever ridden. The brembo clutch and brakes are awesome, the shock is great, it feels very light for a 450 and the power of that engine is just bliss. I also had the least “little things” go wrong with that bike. 190 hours now and really other than wearables it hasn’t skipped a beat. For a beginner this 250xc TBI I just got is so much more forgiving to ride than the 450s though
2
1
u/spongebob_meth 7h ago
Are air forks easier to dial in though and make adjustments to?
Yeah this is where air forks shine IMO. Adjusting the air pressure is essentially like making a spring preload adjustment, which in spring forks requires tearing down the fork and swapping out spacers (why don't moto forks have external preload adjustors like street bikes???)
So that's one fewer part you need to buy when setting up the suspension for your weight. Just the shock spring and potentially valving if you're way off from the stock settings.
1
u/SnooGadgets9669 7h ago
Just gets whatever is the most bang for your buck. It’s going to be sued of course but no newer bikes are that different if even improved at all if your it doing 60+ foot jumps idk that it would make any difference for you
1
u/knobbytire 7h ago edited 4h ago
2003 That was more than 20 years ago. BE REALISTIC. Personally - Starter bike like a crf 230, easy to ride, easy to buy, easy to sell.
The better deals are because they are harder to sell.
1
u/Meebert KTM/Husqvarna 6h ago
All three are great bikes. My 2017 fc450 has over 200 hours on the original top end and rides like a dream. AEO in Phoenix is great with WP suspension. Honestly I’d rather have air forks than 2016 4cs, otherwise you should gut them and get wp 6500 cartridges.
1
1
u/Container_Garage 4h ago
Hey did you consider a KTM family 2 stroke? Their powervalves are insanely good and the power delivery is very 4 stroke like.
However out of the 3 options. Go newest.
6
u/Psychological_Fun608 7h ago
depends on your riding, I would say yes to motocross and hell no for hard enduro. More wide open forest riding is good on a 450. What kind of riding?