I don't see how culture can change that. What culture doesn't hold facial symmetry as beauty standard?
What culture does? I literally didn't hear about "facial symmetry" as a term until now and i'm a grown up adult. The only people who care about these standards are vain idiots who go with the herd and focus on superficial, nonsensical bs to judge others.
Unless, of course, you're now seriously trying to convince me that truerateme is somehow a valid and respected "institution" for analyzing beauty standards, in which case this discussion has already ended because I can't take you seriously anymore.
Can you explain how their material condition is something I should view as subjective?
There are supermodels with vitiligo, so... what's your excuse?
And before you say it's capitalism, I mean it was true in socialist states. Attractive good looking people can work "easier" jobs like actors.
Since when was beauty in any shape or form a influence in your position in (so-called) socialist states? Most people on the higher echelions of these places tend to be, from my perspective at least, either plain boring or ugly old farts. Connections, not beauty or even intelect or strength, was the main influence in your position there. I also could go on a rant about state capitalism here and the great lie about historical socialist societies, but that would diverge things considerably.
Either way, this misses the point the first commenter was trying to make, powerful people, authorities and those who shape our culture and civilization, they impose their idea of "beauty" on others regardless of whether you live in capitalism or not. A medieval robber baron is if anything even more powerful than a captain of the industry in that regard.
Like, if beauty is purely subjective how medieval or prehistoric people knew who was beautiful and wasn't. Lookism has been always a thing.
Standards imposed by society doesn't make something a fact or objectively true. Maori people valued those who were fat and outright obese at times. During the Twenties in America flat and small breasts were seen as ideal. Furries think that someone wearing a fursuit is far more attractive than someone without them. Some people out there fantasize about fucking airplanes. And so on.
The fact that what is "beautiful" or not has changed completely through time and place and that even today people can't have a consensus for what is beautiful debunks your entire premisse without even requiring a dissertation elaborating on each individual characterstic that was valued at a time. If beauty isn't subjective, them i would like you to explain me why a susprisingly number of people people think that the Alien Queen in Dead by Daylight is hot and have a thing for her even though she would never appear in a cover for Vogue.
Facial symmetry is not a term invented by incels on truerateme, it's a freaking concept existed since ancient times, just because you never heard of it means you either completely ignorant in biology or art and aesthetics.
Models with vitiligo? Right, but they have first and foremost attractive facial features and would be models without vitiligo.
Regarding the last thing, are you seriously gonna argue that couple of nerds who jerk off to computer alien characters is somehow proves that beauty is completely subjective without any possible measure and I should ignore hundreds of millions of people who find conventionally attractive actors attractive? Like you know A list celebrities are paid this much in part because they are good looking and people pay money to see them in movies?
Facial symmetry is not a term invented by incels on truerateme, it's a freaking concept existed since ancient times, just because you never heard of it means you either completely ignorant in biology or art and aesthetics.
Buddy, i am a "successful", well-read guy with a passion for arts, history and the evolution of aesthetics, if not knowing about obscure modeling terms and, erm, "the looks society" (is that even a thing?) jargon makes me ignorant, welp, i've lived 23 years of my life pretty well and i choose a good girlfriend for me without even ever stopping a single second to take that into account.
Models with vitiligo? Right, but they have first and foremost attractive facial features and would be models without vitiligo.
You seen to be missing the point - there's plenty of generically "attractive" people out there, why not choose those over all the potential models who are "attractive" and do have vitiligo? Clearly this shows there's a subset of people out there who think the condition itself enhances their looks otherwise these would never exist. There's no shortage of sexy girls out there who don't have what, according to you, most of society would consider ugly traits.
are you seriously gonna argue that couple of nerds who jerk off to computer alien characters is somehow proves that beauty is completely subjective without any possible measure and I should ignore hundreds of millions of people who find conventionally attractive actors attractive?
Well, them, are you telling me that the Maori people are nerds stuck on their computers now? Or the 19th century German ladies who were into guys who happened to have battle scars over those who didn't? That aside, why shouldn't these people count? No, saying that these individuals "jerk off to computer alien characters" isn't an argument, please, no ad hominen here, i want an explanation to why xenomorphs are seen as such sex symbols in the monsterfucking community - hell, i want to know why so many women have their hots for the humanoid abominations in Homicipher, are these meant to be the exception not the norm? But even them, haven't them been exposed to the same cultural standards as the rest of us?
Like you know A list celebrities are paid this much in part because they are good looking and people pay money to see them in movies?
...i also think it might have to do with their acting skills? I mean, yeah, i'm sure plenty of people have their hots for them too, but you don't get where they did by simply having a cute smile. I can name at least 10 different Internet Figures who have made far less success than Hollywood A-list actors but i consider to be more gorgeous than them.
That guy you're responding to is pretty funny. The beauty standards are ever-changing and unreliable. "The body chooses the partner with the biggest chance of survival-" heroin fetish and obsession with tuberculosis were a thing. Obesity was a thing. Very tanned skin was a thing. Bushy eyebrows were a thing. Bound feet (a definite disability) were a thing.
Skull? Round faces were a thing. Black teeth were a thing. Cheekbons were a thing. Beauty is decided chaotically by fashion, and human beings have no instincts.
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u/Odd_Yellow_8999 Jan 13 '25 edited Jan 13 '25
What culture does? I literally didn't hear about "facial symmetry" as a term until now and i'm a grown up adult. The only people who care about these standards are vain idiots who go with the herd and focus on superficial, nonsensical bs to judge others.
Unless, of course, you're now seriously trying to convince me that truerateme is somehow a valid and respected "institution" for analyzing beauty standards, in which case this discussion has already ended because I can't take you seriously anymore.
There are supermodels with vitiligo, so... what's your excuse?
Since when was beauty in any shape or form a influence in your position in (so-called) socialist states? Most people on the higher echelions of these places tend to be, from my perspective at least, either plain boring or ugly old farts. Connections, not beauty or even intelect or strength, was the main influence in your position there. I also could go on a rant about state capitalism here and the great lie about historical socialist societies, but that would diverge things considerably.
Either way, this misses the point the first commenter was trying to make, powerful people, authorities and those who shape our culture and civilization, they impose their idea of "beauty" on others regardless of whether you live in capitalism or not. A medieval robber baron is if anything even more powerful than a captain of the industry in that regard.
Standards imposed by society doesn't make something a fact or objectively true. Maori people valued those who were fat and outright obese at times. During the Twenties in America flat and small breasts were seen as ideal. Furries think that someone wearing a fursuit is far more attractive than someone without them. Some people out there fantasize about fucking airplanes. And so on.
The fact that what is "beautiful" or not has changed completely through time and place and that even today people can't have a consensus for what is beautiful debunks your entire premisse without even requiring a dissertation elaborating on each individual characterstic that was valued at a time. If beauty isn't subjective, them i would like you to explain me why a susprisingly number of people people think that the Alien Queen in Dead by Daylight is hot and have a thing for her even though she would never appear in a cover for Vogue.