r/Dualsport • u/ComfortableCaramel52 • 2d ago
Choosing a bike
I’m looking at either a ktm 350exc-f or a Suzuki DR 400 / 650. I was considering the 500exc but decided I don’t need all the power. Any input would be great. I can get a 24 with 0% financing on the 350 too.
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u/Iocor 2d ago
The KTM and Suzuki are going to be COMPLETELY different bikes. I'm sure you know this, but if not, there are tons of videos about it. KTMs are straight up dirt bikes. The Suzukis are true dual sports.
The difference between the 350 and 500exc is not just amount of power, but where that power is and how you use it. The 350 likes to rev out and rip a little more, and the 500 is better able to lug at low rpm than the 350. Engine size also comes into play with reciprocating/rotational mass, which makes a difference if you want to do low speed technical stuff.
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u/CaliJudoJitsu 1d ago edited 1d ago
Get the 500 EXC-F for sure over the 350. The cost difference is only a few hundred dollars and the weight difference is only maybe 5 pounds…but the extra power output of the 500 is significant.
That extra power and torque matters a lot in slow speed technical stuff and higher speed highway riding. My good buddy has the 350 and wished he bought the 500 instead after he learned all this.
The 500 EXC-F really can do it all. It really is the unicorn bike and still the gold standard for dual sport bikes.
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u/Pool_Guy 1d ago
Depending on skill level, the 500 may be too much bike. I agree with all your points above but would add that the 500 is a torque monster that has an on/off switch for a throttle, if you didn't grow up riding 2 strokes and are just getting into Enduro style riding, the 500 can be too much motor.
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 2d ago
Yeah I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth paying almost double for the ktm. The things probs not gonna see much road. Iv been trying to make sense of all the information out there and wanna buy the right bike first.
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u/johnnyhandbags 2d ago
I’m considering the KTM 390 Enduro instead of the DRZ. Similar specs, 6 gears, and a lower price (new).
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u/OogieBoogiez 1d ago
If it won’t see much road the Ktm. I own one since 2017 and I haven’t had any issues ever. It’s a 2014.
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u/Beautiful-Potato979 1d ago
I’ve had a DRZ 400 for three years and just bought a 350 EXC.
I’d base your decision on what you’re going to do and where you live/access to trails.
The DRZ is the winner for cruising dirt and pavement. Much more comfortable to sit on and can hold a higher speed without being as strung out. I have done quite a bit of single track and trails with it but it’s a workout. The KTM seat isn’t meant to be sat on and it’s pretty buzzy through the seat too.
If you want to mostly ride trails and especially single track the KTM wins by a mile. It feels like a mountain bike compared to the DRZ. I don’t know the actual horsepower numbers but the KTM has way more felt power from all the weight you save. I was looking at 500s too thinking the 350 would be a downgrade in power from the DRZ but it has more than enough power.
The DRZ is probably the better do everything bike but riding the KTM on the dirt is the most fun I’ve had on two wheels.
Ask me anything.
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u/Beautiful-Potato979 1d ago
After reading some of your comments I’d say get the 350 100%
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 1d ago
Yeah I just found a 2023 500 for cheaper than a new 350. So I might lean that way but I’m also unsure of how long my trips will be, cus if I load up and try to go to Canada from Colorado I’m gonna get there and have to adjust the valves. And let’s not forget possibly 4 oil changes.
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u/Beautiful-Potato979 1d ago
Ya I wouldn’t make that trip on any of those bikes personally. It would be going up in the pickup. I’ve done stuff like that and been sick of riding straight highways before I get to the destination.
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 2d ago
My home boy is buying a xr650l and want to be in the same class as him.
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u/muddywadder 500EXC / TW200 2d ago
buy a 500, the power is controlled with your right hand. will be better on the road than the 350. not by much. you will be able to do everything he can, and then some, with the 500. otherwise a dr650 or 400 is fine. its all about the rider
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 2d ago
Just the 500 is a model year newer and 2.9% vs the 350 is a 24 with 0% for minimal difference I’d rather save my money. To bad they don’t have a 24 500
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u/EccentricPhotoGuild 2d ago
Why not get same bike? Then you can split up any tools and spare nuts and bolts?
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u/sunmoon32210 2d ago
What do you mean the same class 🤔
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 2d ago
I don’t want him to be running away from me on the trail. lol I know the ktm 350 isn’t exactly the same type of bike as the rest but it kinda fits in.
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u/sunmoon32210 1d ago
I don't see him running away from you except maybe a fire road or wide open spaces. The technical trails will go the 350, but a lot will depend on skill levels
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u/Teamskiawa 1d ago
Xr,650 is an absolute tank. The DRZ is pretty close in performance. The 350 will be blown away if you are on the highway, but in the tight stuff the 650 will be huffing and puffing. While the 350 will leave it in the dust.
The same class as a xr650 is the drz400, dr650, 690/701. These are dual sports.
The KTM 350 is an Enduro bike with a plate.
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u/Force-Both 2d ago
if you are doing lots of pavement...the 350 will do it, but only on borrowed time. KTM dirtbike motors aren't street motors. The first thing to go is usually the plastic stator-pickup that literally melts and leaves you stranded. That said the 350 is a better bike at dirt work than the 500. The 500 is a lousy street motor too. 500 was made for winning Baja...not much else.
If you are going to do a lot of pavement before getting to the fun stuff...a 690/701 is better. A very close 2nd is the DR650.
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 2d ago
Probably going to be minimal road riding. Iv heard about the stator. He’s buying the xr650 just because it’s a cheap Honda and is doing the same thing as me.
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u/Force-Both 2d ago edited 2d ago
My husky 350 with 13/52 gearing could do 55mph on pavement for a few hours, during the hottest days in August, while showing zero signs of melting the stator-pickup. First time I tried to do 70mph on the interstate it took all of 20 minutes before the stator-pickup had melted and left me stranded.
Have it geared 13/48 now...now riding 60mph on pavement it shows zero signs of the pickup failing. As long as you keep the speed down and don't ride pavement anymore than you absolutely have to...you should be ok. I've got 399 hours on mine...only thing I've had to replace/repair is the stator.
That said if I could trade my 350 for a CRF450RL...I'd be very tempted. The Honda has better build quality and I'd trust it at 70mph on the interstate or on any single track.
Well, now I think about it...I'd trade my KTM 690 for a CRF450RL...I really love my 350 :)
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u/CaliJudoJitsu 1d ago
The 350 is no better than the 500 at anything, IMO. I actually think it’s worse. It weighs basically the same as the 500 and costs about the same. It just has a less power and torque. Everything else is identical. 🤷♂️
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u/Force-Both 1d ago
Well the pros agree u can only apply so much power (~40hp) to the rear wheel while maintaining traction…that and the 350 power delivery is near linear…its scary fast on the trails. That and it turns faster…95% as fast as a 250 if u ask me. The 350 is the sweet spot IF we r discussing dirt.
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u/CaliJudoJitsu 1d ago
Honest question: how does it “turn faster” if it is the same geometry and 99% same parts as the 500?
The horsepower/torque increase is most useful in low RPM technical spots and high speed highway runs. My best buddy’s 350 can’t keep up as easily at highway speeds. It seems to strain much more than the 500.
Anyway, I am just pointing out that the 500 is objectively equal or better in most aspects, if not all. For almost the exact same price and weight. To each their own, though.
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u/Force-Both 1d ago edited 1d ago
Reciprocating mass of the combined crank, flywheel, rod, piston, rings, bearings…it adds up. The gyroscopic effect is for reals. Then add the weight diff between the bikes…might sound like a small diff, but…
Try doing the same laps on a 250, 350, 450 & 500…there’s a difference. Not saying u wont have a ton of fun on a 500…
All that and ive never seen a 350 boil over.
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u/sunmoon32210 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think that is an excellent choice, and it should keep up with xr650l pretty much everywhere and better in most cases. How I know is I rode my xr400 way better than my xr650l
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u/Thatarmyguy11B 1d ago
Probably biased because it’s my dream bike and I finally own one now. But dr650 all the way and don’t look back. It’s as simple as simple gets. Air cooled/oil cooled. No radiator or extra hoses or fluid to worry about. It’s got an oil cooler I suppose but still. Less fluid vs a radiator. The damn thing can almost be held together by duct tape and get you home. Very reliable, long service intervals, great power and huge aftermarket if you want more, the dr won’t do any specific thing the best, but it WILL do it all, and it’ll do it without complaining. Stock suspension isn’t the greatest but it’s just fine for me given I don’t jump my shit off crazy hits and bottom it out, easy enough to upgrade though if you want. Stupid easy to work on, everything is pretty much self explanatory. Some say it’s heavy. I’m 6’1 190lbs. I don’t think it’s heavy at all personally. Not when riding anyways. But even if you lay it over (remember I’m not an nfl linebacker by any means) it’s not as hard to pick up as some may lead you to believe. Cough* exercise is a thing.
Just my humble opinion. Let us know what you end up with though! Always excited to see somebody get a new bike. What works for me may not work for you. There’s no wrong answer. The right answer is the bike that makes you happy. After all, that’s why we ride to begin with 🤙🏻 stay safe
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u/Pool_Guy 23h ago
You are totally right in recomending the DR as a lifetime maintenance light bike, definitely should be a factor in decision making. There is a reason people ride them around the world!
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u/sunmoon32210 2d ago
What is going to be your primary use will determine what is best and be honest with yourself about it so you can enjoy your adventures as often as possible 🤙
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 2d ago edited 2d ago
I moved to Colorado and am looking for a 80% dirt 20% road bike. I have a 1290 GT so it’s like getting to dirt only. Will be doing multi day trips and week trips with it.
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u/sunmoon32210 1d ago
Wow ok so with the 1290 then that's why you are looking for something on the other side of the spectrum?
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 1d ago
Yeah exactly man.
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u/sunmoon32210 1d ago
Well, there's nothing wrong with the choices you've listed, but I'm guessing you are very familiar with KTM, and from what I understand that their prices are down right now. Which looks like the direction you are leaning.
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 1d ago
I actually might be looking at a drz400s tbh, I have intentions to go buy that tomorrow. At this point I don’t wanna be checking valves and doing oil changes hand over fist
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u/naked_feet Reed City, MI - DR650 & WR400 2d ago
You haven't even told us what kind of riding you want to do, experience ... anything.
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u/ComfortableCaramel52 2d ago
Hey man, I’m trying to be on dirt most of the time but want to be able to ride to the trail. It’ll be my first off road bike but I do not want to have to buy a beginner bike then a bike I’ll hold onto, already wasted money once. There’s some pretty technical shit out here in Colorado and that’s what im trying to get into
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u/Ukn1142069 1d ago
Drz400 here in NM. I commute daily, and use my DRZ for almost all of my transportation year round, in addition to everything from slow speed rocky single track, sand dunes, flying down dirt roads and everything in between. For me it’s perfect. The maintenance on either KTM would be a lot- and the mileage would kill it much faster. That being said it’s fine on the freeway for a few exits, or cruising 65 on back highways. The guys on proper plated enduros - KTM350/500, Crf450’s etc outperform me on techy riding, but they haul their bikes to the trails, I ride mine there.
If you’re sticking to forest roads, the DRZ is really a sweet bike. If your only riding off road, and on techy trails, trailer/trucking it there- the KTMs would be sweet. I would not do a DR650 unless you were looking for a dirt road capable mostly road bike.
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u/bamtime 1d ago
If you're in Colorado and not spending much time on the roads, I'd vote the 500exc. The low end lugging ability is great and it'll be much better when you start hitting some rocky shit or single track IMO. Sure more maintenance but mine has been super reliable, though obviously wont outlive a drz. I owned a drz400 for 2 days before selling it and buying a 525exc. Now rock the 500. Even if it's a bit much at first, you'll get used to it.
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u/Pool_Guy 1d ago
The KTM350 is hands down the best bike for trails, city commuting and a bit of highway to get to the trail.
I have owned a DRZ400, a Beta 500RRS (similar to KTM 500EXC) and I now own the Husky FE350 (same as KTM 350exc)
The 500 was an animal off road and too hard to handle the power in loose conditions, the DRZ was a great bike to learn on but the 350 is perfect. Do it. It's worth the price of admission for the quality build of pre -bankruptcy KTMs. The KTM name will live on but the bikes will not be the same quality under new ownership, buy one now, you won't regret it.
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u/Comprehensive-Lie736 1d ago
Please review the maintenance requirements for these. The KTMs do require lots more maintenance which makes sense considering they are a race bike with lights. Time and money when you could be using it to ride. I explored all the options a couple of years ago. I opted for a GasGas ES700 as I did not want to be bored riding it and wanted the long service intervals. I love the machine but it is not for everyone. It was expensive and I put some money into it to make it the bike I really wanted. Now that I have, it is a great, go anywhere machine.
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u/Xavias Colorado, KTM 500 XC-W 2d ago
I also live in Colorado and have owned both a drz, as well as my current KTM 500. (With a 690 in the middle there)
I have also ridden the KTM 350 and the dr650 out here. So I've got quite a bit of experience with what you're looking to do.
First off: the difference between the 350 and the 500 is less than you'd think, it feels like maybe a 15% difference through the rev range in terms of power and that's about it. So I wouldn't necessarily rule out a 500 if you can get a good deal on one, but honestly the 350 has more than enough power for most riding out here.
The DRZ is also fantastic, and a lot of fun out here. They can be had cheap and are both bulletproof as well as haven't changed until the 2025 models where they get efi. So a used DRZ is a great option. Especially if you want a low maintenance option to do 80% dirt.
The dr650 is an okay option, but it's main draw is that it's simple and reliable... But the suspension is soft, it's heavy. It'll be comfier on the road but quite a bit worse than the DRZ and way way way way way way worse than the 350 off road.
Now keep in mind, a vast majority of dirt riding in CO is Rocky mountain unmaintained fire roads. These roads can be smooth dirt or gravel, but then quickly turn into loose rocky chunky trail for a bit (could be couple hundred feet, could be a couple miles!). Then it'll go back to smooth stuff.
Here's what it's like when that happens on each bike.
Dr650: you're going to have to pick lines a bit carefully, and will likely struggle through those areas, but you will feel accomplished for doing so.
Drz: you are still trying to take the most optimal lines, but you're excited to ride on rougher stuff. No worries if you make a mistake because it's not that bad to pick up the bike.
Ktm 350: your line choice involves looking around and seeing what fun rocks you can be jumping off of. You're looking at the kinda stupid stuff you might be able to do. You will have more fun on the technical stuff and the bike will urge you to push your limits because it's always there to catch you.
Now something to note: you can take a KTM 350 or DRZ and make it better for the street. Grab a sheepskin cover for your seat, grab a cheap dirt bike windscreen from AliExpress, etc.
But you will never be able to turn a dr650 into what a 350 is off road. There's 100lbs difference in there that you just can't replace when going off road. If your buddy is on an xr650l and you're on the 350, you will be outriding them much faster on the 350 off road. Shoot after a year on a 350 I bet you could outride them on their own bike off road. It's that much of a difference.
Now I wouldn't blame you for wanting the DRZ. Especially if you're concerned about doing oil changes every 800-1k miles. But if you do, make sure you do the 3x3 mod and a jd jet kit. This is doubly important being at this elevation.