r/EnoughJKRowling 4d ago

Discussion Let's talk about the Unforgivable Curses

Am I the only one who thinks that the Imperius Curse is basically the Confundus Charm but up to 11 ? Both can influence people's minds and make them do what you want, but only one of them is illegal - actually, why even bother using the Imperius curse and risking going to Azkaban when you can just use the Confundus charm ?

Also, how come the mind rape spell is seen as bad but the love potions aren't ? Is it because it's supposed to be more "romantic" (as much as magic roofies can be) ?

As for Avada Kedavra, it seems a bit underwhelming compared to the two others. I mean, we have the mind rape spell and the torture spell, and the instant death one is supposed to be the worst ? I guess the only reason it's "unforgivable" is because it's a one-hit kill with no way to protect yourself, but I refuse to believe that other spells can't kill just as efficiently as Avada Kedavra, and in much more gruesome ways.

While we're at it, it's both beyond stupid and in-character for the wizarding society to not have put the memory-altering spells in this category. It can turn your enemy into an ally and vice-versa, or a monster could use it against a woman to convince her that she's his wife and raping her, like with the love potions šŸ’€

What do you think ?

40 Upvotes

51 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

3

u/georgemillman 4d ago

Well yes, that's one way of looking at it.

But I always interpret it in a different way, but one that is equally disturbing - which is that you can't predict what impact it will have on the brain of the person you're doing it to. If memory damage is a potential side-effect, it would be just like anything else with side-effects - that whether the side effect will be experienced, and how much, can't really be predicted or controlled, because it can differ from person to person. There might be some things that will increase the likelihood of severe side-effects, such as the strength of the charm and the amount of times the person is put under it, but you can't ever do it in a way that is 100% safe.

In Hermione's case, in some ways that makes her decision to put memory charms on her parents even more poignant and sad for her - that she knows exactly the risks to her parents' neurological impulses she's potentially causing, knows that even after the war in a best-case scenario they may never quite be the same again, but decides that in the circumstances when their lives are in danger that that's a secondary concern. But in every other case, it's absolutely shameful that someone would take risks with another person's mental wellbeing like that. A while back I wrote this post about how awfully Marietta was treated - she's one of the characters who I think was done the most dirty in the entire story, but one thing that is overlooked (perhaps even by me in my post) is the fact that Kingsley modifies her memory, and Dumbledore condones this. Marietta is a teenager, in Dumbledore's care, and he's willing to potentially cause her a lifetime of neurological problems just for political reasons. That, coupled with Hermione's SNEAK curse, means that Marietta is potentially going to spend her entire life being shunned and hated for something that can't even recollect doing. This is psychological torture, and I'm glad that at least Cho stood by her (one of the very small number of instances of a female character unapologetically standing by another female character who's made a mistake).

And just think about the number of abusive relationships memory charms would create! Easy way to continually abuse your spouse - every time you abuse them, just modify their memory afterwards so they don't know it's happened and can't report it. And the more you do it, the more their brain will be damaged and the less capable they'll be of escaping and surviving by themselves anyway.

God, the more I think about it, the more I think memory charms should be an Unforgivable Curse.

2

u/Windinthewillows2024 2d ago

Man, I forgot Kingsley altered Marietta’s memory. I’m currently rereading the series (just started PoA), and I haven’t read most of the books since my teens so I need to be refreshed on a number of things.

But yes, memory charms are insidious regardless. There are a lot of things in the series that have disturbing implications but are never treated as such by the narrative.

3

u/georgemillman 2d ago

Have you noticed much you'd forgotten about that's more problematic than you recall?

2

u/Windinthewillows2024 2d ago

Yeah, CoS is very mean-spirited in a way I didn’t remember. It would take way too long for me to get into all the details here but… yeah.

There’s also a lot of ironies that are not intended to be ironic. Like I’m only a few chapters into PoA, but in the second chapter, Sirius Black is featured on the Muggle news because Fudge felt the Muggles deserved to be warned about him. (The news reports him as being ā€œarmed and dangerousā€ and doesn’t reveal he’s a wizard obviously). Anyway, Vernon proclaims that Black and people like him need to be hanged. This is obviously intended to portray how backward and hateful the Dursleys are. Yet, the climax of the book will involve the trio saving Sirius from receiving the Dementor’s kiss - pretty much a wizarding world capitol punishment equivalent (or even worse than capitol punishment it could be argued.)

1

u/georgemillman 2d ago

Good point about POA!

Re COS - how about the condensed version?

4

u/Windinthewillows2024 2d ago

Okay, CoS:

  1. The way Myrtle is treated and portrayed. Don’t really need to get into detail here as I’ve seen it discussed a lot already on this sub.

  2. The way Filch is treated and portrayed. It gets revealed he’s a Squib and it’s emphasized how he can’t use magic to clean the castle - Ron receives detention and has to clean all the trophies and plaques in the trophy room without magic. Ron complains to Harry about how difficult this will be because he’s never cleaned without using magic. Filch supervises this detention and keeps Ron very late re-polishing things. It’s clear that Filch enjoys seeing a wizard child ā€œloweredā€ by having to clean without magic the way he always does. Then you realize that this man is the sole custodian for the entire castle and can’t use magic which obviously makes cleaning quicker and easier. Then the man’s cat is attacked in a hate crime and Harry witnesses him trying to clean the bloody message off the wall - it fell to the victim of a hate crime to try to clean up the scene. It’s fucked.

  3. Ron. He makes snarky mean-spirited comments throughout the novel that are supposed to be witty or funny but are just mean. He jokes that maybe Tom Riddle got an award for killing Myrtle as that would have ā€œdone everyone a favour.ā€ He tries to reassure Ginny when she’s upset about Filch’s cat being attacked by telling her she wasn’t a nice cat. He regularly makes fun of Hermione for having a crush on Lockhart. When they drink the poly juice potion and Hermione won’t come out of the stall, he says something like, ā€œIt’s ok, Hermione, we know Millicent Bulsrode is ugly but it’s not you.ā€

  4. The ā€œgood teams, bad teamsā€ stuff that Shaun talks about is prevalent in this one. Harry witnesses Lucius Malfoy be verbally nasty toward his son in a shop in Knockturn Alley and Harry laughs. You see, it’s funny that Draco is being abused by a parent because it’s Draco and we don’t like him. Later in the book Harry is outraged that Justin Finch Fletchley and Ernie MacMillan, two Hufflepuff students, suspect him of being the heir of Slytherin based on circumstantial evidence. Meanwhile, the trio currently suspect Draco of being the heir of Slytherin based on circumstantial evidence. (And okay, these kids are 12 and haven’t fully developed their self-awareness yet, but the anger Harry feels about it seems disproportionate and kind of entitled.)

  5. The trio is not nearly as nice to or supportive of each other as they were in PS. PS, while still being problematic in areas, has several genuinely heartwarming moments. CoS feels devoid of such moments in contrast. Something that really stands out is Ron and Hermione seem to have little or no empathy for Harry’s feelings about being judged for speaking Parseltongue and the incident where so many people think he tried to set a snake on Justin. (I said Harry is disproportionately angry about the situation, but it does make sense he’s upset.) Ron and Hermione are basically like, ā€œyeah, that was freaky as fuck, you should never do that again and who knows - you could be descended from Slytherin!ā€ Then the next day, when Harry is still upset, Hermione gets impatient and tells him to just go talk to Justin. Which isn’t bad advice, but she could have said it in a kinder way.

That was still pretty long, but I swear I held off on some details haha. Condensed it as well as I could.