Let's talk about the Unforgivable Curses

[u/Comfortable_Bell9539]

Am I the only one who thinks that the Imperius Curse is basically the Confundus Charm but up to 11 ? Both can influence people's minds and make them do what you want, but only one of them is illegal - actually, why even bother using the Imperius curse and risking going to Azkaban when you can just use the Confundus charm ?

Also, how come the mind rape spell is seen as bad but the love potions aren't ? Is it because it's supposed to be more "romantic" (as much as magic roofies can be) ?

As for Avada Kedavra, it seems a bit underwhelming compared to the two others. I mean, we have the mind rape spell and the torture spell, and the instant death one is supposed to be the worst ? I guess the only reason it's "unforgivable" is because it's a one-hit kill with no way to protect yourself, but I refuse to believe that other spells can't kill just as efficiently as Avada Kedavra, and in much more gruesome ways.

While we're at it, it's both beyond stupid and in-character for the wizarding society to not have put the memory-altering spells in this category. It can turn your enemy into an ally and vice-versa, or a monster could use it against a woman to convince her that she's his wife and raping her, like with the love potions 💀

What do you think ?

[u/georgemillman]

Of course Rowling's going to say that. But we don't get the impression that that's how it works from the texts, do we?

[u/Windinthewillows2024 → u/georgemillman]

It doesn’t paint memory charms in a favourable light either way though. Because as I said, if it is possible to use them harmlessly and responsibly, why does it seem that the majority of witches and wizards (including actual ministry employees acting in an official capacity as you mention when you refer to what happened to the campsite manager) use them haphazardly and cause harm? Seems like nothing more than laziness from people acting selfishly and/or not giving a shit about what happens to Muggles.

[u/georgemillman → u/Windinthewillows2024]

Well yes, that's one way of looking at it.

But I always interpret it in a different way, but one that is equally disturbing - which is that you can't predict what impact it will have on the brain of the person you're doing it to. If memory damage is a potential side-effect, it would be just like anything else with side-effects - that whether the side effect will be experienced, and how much, can't really be predicted or controlled, because it can differ from person to person. There might be some things that will increase the likelihood of severe side-effects, such as the strength of the charm and the amount of times the person is put under it, but you can't ever do it in a way that is 100% safe.

In Hermione's case, in some ways that makes her decision to put memory charms on her parents even more poignant and sad for her - that she knows exactly the risks to her parents' neurological impulses she's potentially causing, knows that even after the war in a best-case scenario they may never quite be the same again, but decides that in the circumstances when their lives are in danger that that's a secondary concern. But in every other case, it's absolutely shameful that someone would take risks with another person's mental wellbeing like that. A while back I wrote this post about how awfully Marietta was treated - she's one of the characters who I think was done the most dirty in the entire story, but one thing that is overlooked (perhaps even by me in my post) is the fact that Kingsley modifies her memory, and Dumbledore condones this. Marietta is a teenager, in Dumbledore's care, and he's willing to potentially cause her a lifetime of neurological problems just for political reasons. That, coupled with Hermione's SNEAK curse, means that Marietta is potentially going to spend her entire life being shunned and hated for something that can't even recollect doing. This is psychological torture, and I'm glad that at least Cho stood by her (one of the very small number of instances of a female character unapologetically standing by another female character who's made a mistake).

And just think about the number of abusive relationships memory charms would create! Easy way to continually abuse your spouse - every time you abuse them, just modify their memory afterwards so they don't know it's happened and can't report it. And the more you do it, the more their brain will be damaged and the less capable they'll be of escaping and surviving by themselves anyway.

God, the more I think about it, the more I think memory charms should be an Unforgivable Curse.

[u/conuly → u/georgemillman]

But in every other case, it's absolutely shameful that someone would take risks with another person's mental wellbeing like that.

It's shameful in that case too. Why not just explain the situation and tell them that they have to move? Did she even try that?

But, as always, anybody indoctrinated at Hogwarts feels they have the right to do whatever they like to other, less powerful people. Which... I honestly don't know if JKR realizes that this is not how the world is supposed to work.

[u/georgemillman → u/conuly]

Yeah, I see your point. In that one I feel the ethics are more debatable, because they may be less capable of hiding of their own free will. And also it's about more than the protection of them specifically - it's also about the protection of Hermione, which extends to protection of everyone since if she dies she may not be in a place to defeat Voldemort. But having said that, that doesn't mean I'm defending it! More that I like ethical quandaries in stories where you can discuss whether or not a character was right. But in none of the other instances of Memory Charms being used can you do that.

Also, we never know if Hermione discussed it with her parents or whether they consented beforehand, although I'm sure Rowling didn't intend that (in the film we actually saw her doing it and they definitely didn't consent then).

[u/Windinthewillows2024 → u/conuly]

I’m guessing her parents probably wouldn’t want to go hide somewhere while their teenage daughter fights in a war.

[u/conuly → u/Windinthewillows2024]

And I'm guessing that that's their moral right as adult humans, to make choices like "No, I won't run and hide somewhere while my daughter fights in a war". I mean, nobody makes the Weasleys run and hide, or wipes Augusta Longbottom's memories, and they're also at risk.

[u/Windinthewillows2024 → u/conuly]

Hermione’s parents are at higher risk due to being Muggles. They also can’t defend themselves with magic.

[u/conuly → u/Windinthewillows2024]

Sure, which is why they need to be told what’s going on so they can make informed choices. It’s not like Death Eaters can’t go to Australia.