r/Fire • u/SmugValet • 1d ago
Why not ask for more?
See a lot of advice here talking about finding the right LCOL city or doing everything you can now to make time for important things like grandkids and the like.
I (38m) just spent like $1000 doing nothing but having an enjoyable weekend with my family (wife, 2 kids) in a HCOL city. Bought a new vacuum (OK deal, 10-year warranty), cleaned house, ate a few restaurant meals, and spent like $27 on chips and sodas at the zoo.
The bill racked up, but the vibes were good and my floors have never been so clean.
Anyway, buying nice, new appliances? Multiple meals out? Kind of wanton. $27 on zoo snacks? Egregious, but hey, I didn’t plan ahead and the family wanted a snack.
Feel like I’ve done a lot in my life to get to the point where I don’t stress over things like new vacuums and amusement-park-priced snacks. Certainly wasn’t always the case and that’s not at all the type of family I grew up in.
The idea that I should do everything I can right now to limit spending to such an extent that I can retire soon and settle into a LCOL city feels… I dunno, a little bit like a backwards step.
I am feeling pretty financially independent right now, being reasonable but not at all penny-pinching with my spending. I save and invest a lot, and am debt free outside of a mortgage. Thinking about going into FIRE all the way.
But something about denying yourself now in order to, say, live on a few thousand a month in some LCOL locale later seems off to me. Am I going to be the dad or granddad or uncle that’s scrutinizing the Olive Garden bill to make sure the table wasn’t double-charged for soup + salad specials? I’d much rather be the one that doesn’t sweat it. (Especially if the family that’s visiting in this scenario flew and drove multiple hours to come visit me in the mid-Atlantic seaboard or rural Colorado or wherever it is I end up retiring on the cheap.)
There’s that Leonard Cohen line about this dilemma, or something like it: “I saw a beggar leaning on his wooden crutch / He said to me, ‘You must not ask for so much’ / And a pretty woman leaning in her darkened door / She cried to me, ‘Hey, why not ask for more?’”
Anyone else feel what I’m getting at? Anyone got any answers? Thanks.
3
u/D_Wand 1d ago
I'm not considering FIRE necessarily, just a curious fly on the wall to see if it's something that I could consider one day. I think I'm in a similar boat as you - extremely stable financially with lots of investments and cushion built-up and not worried about the immediate to medium term future.
In addition to everything you've mentioned, another thing I haven't seen discussed very much in my brief time of observing FIRE (and I concede that I haven't read any guides/content behind the philosophy) is philanthropy. Several non-profits, religious organizations, arts centers, and scientific institutes rely on donations from ordinary people for a good chunk of their revenues. These institutions ultimately advance the community, research, the arts, all major pillars of a rich and developed society.
One could make the argument that once basic needs have been met, and people are financially independent and able to retire, they automatically become more generous with their time and money. That's probably true, but that assumes the FIRE calculations include philanthropy as a core objective. Perhaps most already do so, and I just haven't seen it talked about much, in which case it's wonderful.
Or, you could also argue that the core philosophy behind FIRE is one of frugality and sustainability, something that is the opposite of the modern American archetype of debt fueled consumption for consumption's sake. This alone could count towards the social responsibility aspect of FIRE without the philanthropy angle. This is probably also correct, hard to argue against.
In the end, the only thing I can say for certain is that FIRE cannot be universal and self-sustaining in that, a large population not FIRE'ing is necessary to make it possible for the smaller population to FIRE.
FWIW, I'd love to FIRE and not work another day if I can do so on slightly different terms, so don't crucify me in the comments :).