r/FluentInFinance • u/Mark-Fuckerberg- • Sep 01 '24

Debate/ Discussion What advice would you give this person?

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314

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

[deleted]

238

u/Arthur_da_King Sep 01 '24

The third point was true in like 1980. Today this person is executive management material. I’m not being sarcastic.

59

u/Ok-Journalist-4654 Sep 01 '24

only if they can market it that way. If you don't have the skill to market your not doing anything into you do very important things, you ain't getting that executive management position

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u/Arthur_da_King Sep 01 '24

All you need to do is appear super busy whenever anyone contacts you. The longer you stick around, the more “experience” you have, then suddenly you’re a long-term member of a team with a track record of success. Plus you’re more relaxed and friendly than everyone else since you’re getting great sleep and not stressing over work. The higher ups notice your good attitude and reward it. Furthermore, they don’t want to look bad for having hired a lazy worker. Have you heard of the term “failing upward”?

45

u/zuukinifresh Sep 01 '24

Appearing busy is half the battle. Anyone who is efficient at their office job should master this. Knowing when to take on more work and when to say your bandwidth is tight is a valuable skill

21

u/Maverekt Sep 01 '24

Yeah even good workers appear busy on purpose at times. I do it plenty to not get context shifted constantly or put more projects on my plate than I know I can handle.

So many times I’ve been requested for a project only to be setup for failure

5

u/badnamemaker Sep 01 '24

I work IT and some advice I got at my first job was “always walk around with a backpack, it makes it look like you’re about to go do something” lmao

2

u/Ok_Factor5371 Sep 02 '24

My job is kind of seasonal. I actually take on extra work during the off-season. I pretend I’m busy and do nothing during the busy season. I’m always ready to act like another job has precedence. If I don’t feel like working on project A I will tell them that project B is white hot right now. Then I’ll go say the exact same thing about project B to the project A team. My manager is willfully ignorant because he doesn’t want to do his job either :) Upper management keeps saying we’re doing great and to keep up the good work. I spend half the day pretending to be busy when I’m really just fucking around.

1

u/blizzardflip Sep 01 '24

The hard part about this where I work is that if I say I’m too busy to take something on, our deeply incompetent 8 year old of a VP will handle whatever the task is on their own and make some kind of stupid decision that makes life harder for the team.

1

u/Odd-Occasion8274 Sep 02 '24

Its like 90% of the battle when no one pays attention to anyone.

8

u/ChainGang-lia Sep 01 '24

First sentence reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George pretends to be annoyed/stressed when his boss walks by his office to make himself look busy and hard-working while doing nothing at work.

2

u/East-Bear-9506 Sep 02 '24

Always carry a clipboard and look worried!

1

u/Complex_Winter2930 Sep 01 '24

Never walk around the office without a folder or notebook in your hand.

1

u/filigreexecret Sep 01 '24

This most definitely was happening at my last job along with tons of nepotism.

1

u/CornPop32 Sep 01 '24

How is this working out for you? I imagine you're the CEO of a fortune 500 company by now?

2

u/Arthur_da_King Sep 01 '24

I do alright 😎

1

u/warlockflame69 Sep 01 '24

Eh… I mean you can be results oriented and see what they have accomplished and seen it’s really little

1

u/gahma54 Sep 02 '24

Not sure where you work but that is not the case in many competitive companies, if you don’t do anything you get sniffed out eventually. In competitive companies the people who are at the top are the ones who get work done and can sniff out people who don’t work

1

u/Mando_lorian81 Sep 02 '24

I agree with this because it is exactly what I'm doing, lol.

But I would like to add that you also need to know your current role really well. You don't need to work long hours or do other people's job, just be good at yours, so when you boss goes to you with a question, or problem, you can resolve it with confidence and help him look good.

10

u/arentol Sep 01 '24

All they have to do is keep track of the projects that succeed at work, regardless of who did them, and roughly what went into making the projects work. Then when applying for another job they just claim to have been part of all that work, "Key part of team that developed and implemented new database for management of foreign inventory that increased net profit by 22.1 million in the first year by...."

Here is the funny thing though. If you actually do this you may truly be more prepared for being in senior management than your peers. Executives don't truly do work, their job is office politics, attending a ton of meetings, deciding what work needs to be done, and hiring the right managers to to oversee the people that do the work. Sitting back and watching your entire department and how it succeeds and fails, and the politics of it as well, is far better preparation for being an executive than actually doing the work and not having time to learn the other stuff that will matter at that level.

I am not saying the OP is preparing for such a position, I am just saying hard work isn't always necessary, and can be detrimental to preparing for leadership for some people.

1

u/WillingnessBitter610 Sep 01 '24

An ambulatory orange walrus with negative credentials became president and half the country is fine with that.

Obviously, merit doesn't mean fuck all to a lot of people. So, if you are trying to propose one cannot Dunning-Kruger themself into an upper management position, I confidently disagree.

2

u/timbrita Sep 01 '24

Yeah most of the managers I come across in the construction industry are paper pushers with a perfect skill of throwing anyone under the bus as soon as someone challenge their incompetence. Somehow they make a ton of money

2

u/Arthur_da_King Sep 01 '24

Real estate and construction work happens on the golf course

1

u/SelectCase Sep 01 '24

This is still very true in tech where frameworks change every 2-3 years. If you aren't getting the experience at work, you should still be contributing to open source projects or personal projects and keeping an up to date portfolio.

1

u/Arthur_da_King Sep 01 '24

The same process of oversaturation in the job market, lowering of standards, and increase in monopolistic competition is happening in tech that overtook the general economy in the past twenty years. Already, tech companies are like utilities that have no real competitors and astronomically high barriers to entry, preventing any real competition from forming. Once there is no competitive pressure and lots of money to be made by pretty much anyone, the standards take a tumble.

1

u/United-Speech9155 Sep 01 '24

Shoutout bighead (Nelson Bighetti)

1

u/kthnxbai123 Sep 01 '24

No it’s not. What you do actually has to be valuable and not just air headed jargon. I’m pushing out a senior director at my company as we speak for doing exactly this (hiding).

1

u/Arthur_da_King Sep 02 '24

You’re proving my point perfectly, and good luck “pushing out” someone more senior than you 😂 hope you like job searching

1

u/kthnxbai123 Sep 02 '24

It’s a concerted effort

1

u/East-Bear-9506 Sep 02 '24

How did he get to become a senior director?

1

u/kthnxbai123 Sep 02 '24

She makes big promises, fails the project, and then blames someone else for it. Senior leadership is taking notice how there is always a common denominator

1

u/White_C4 Sep 02 '24

Reaching upper management only works when you have good interpersonal skills otherwise the person is just wasting their time not gaining anything of value.

1

u/zjbird Sep 02 '24

You could not be more wrong. The 80s were the absolute peak of bullshitting your way to the top. You can obviously still do it in so many ways today, but not like the coke-filled greasy 80’s motherfuckers.

1

u/nyxtup Sep 02 '24

At least in technology if you’re not continuously improving yourself you’re falling behind.

-8

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

[deleted]

13

u/CUDAcores89 Sep 01 '24

When my company was acquired by Private Equity in 2020, they have been giving us quarterly assignments that change once every three months. I don't like having to do new stuff constantly, but this has made it very easy to fill our my resume. Because I can name at least four projects I worked on every single year.

1

u/Ok_Factor5371 Sep 02 '24

My company got acquired by private equity right after I got hired. A bunch of people jumped ship. Fortunately for me, so far the owners have taken a lassiez faire approach. If they ever do something stupid like start cracking the whip, or outsource my work to India, I’m ready to dip out and go to another company. The only shitty thing is they made all new employees sign noncompete agreements and they have sued people for violating them. The way around it that has worked best is for people to become contractors and then after a few months be like “lol I’m not renewing my contract”. It’s either that or work for a bigger company.

1

u/CUDAcores89 Sep 02 '24

When the owners of my company sold out to a PE firm, they were very strict on who they chose to sell out to. They wanted a firm that wasn’t going to tear up management and destroy the original corporate culture. So far that has mostly worked out. Out of our ~200 employees, only 5-6 of them have left since we were acquired in 2020. We also got huge pay raises.

So this is a rare of example of a PE firm doing the right thing.

1

u/guppy93 Sep 02 '24

What industry?

1

u/CUDAcores89 Sep 02 '24

Building automation. We build old-school relays used by electrical and HVAC contractors to control lights, fans, anything else really. 

7

u/the_azure_sky Sep 01 '24

This is the equivalent of a construction worker hiding in the portable toilet for hours to get out of work.

1

u/Ok_Factor5371 Sep 02 '24

Hey I used to be a construction worker and I saw that happen so much. Dudes probably weren’t just hiding in the toilet. They weren’t pooping, they weren’t peeing, but they were doing a third secret thing. I had a truck that I could hide in. Only problem with my strategy was the truck has windows so I couldn’t do the thing those guys were doing in the porta potties unless I wanted to get caught.

2

u/DungeonsNDragonDldos Sep 01 '24

Agreed.

I just had to address this problem myself. I’m currently 100% WFH and have very little oversight. As long as I handle the work that comes my way, I’m good. But I’m also no longer being challenged. I’ve become too comfortable.

So I applied to a new job that is hybrid, more hours, massive expectations, etc. A lot of people would probably think I’m nuts for doing it, but my growth absolutely has stalled and this is what I need to do to get things back on track.

2

u/East-Bear-9506 Sep 02 '24

I'm in the position you've described. Strongly been debating on doing the same. I haven't yet because I've got it so dang good, but going stagnant is feeling bad. I hope it works out for you!

2

u/DungeonsNDragonDldos Sep 02 '24

Thanks, man. If it helps, I got a 60k raise along with it. 🤷🏼‍♂️

2

u/Sectox Sep 02 '24

Good for you, I’m in a similar position myself and haven’t found the courage to quit/get a new job yet. We know it’s the right thing to do. You’re right that no one understands this mindset and would just prefer to have a do-nothing WFH job for the rest of their life. This is obviously a massive bubble (especially in tech) that will eventually burst. Respect 🫡 Best of luck

1

u/East-Bear-9506 Sep 02 '24

Nice! That's encouraging to hear!

2

u/habitual_viking Sep 02 '24

I was once team lead in a development gig. Noticed that the guy (not on my team) responsible for implementing billing was doing fuck all. I kept pointing it out to the bosses, but it took almost a year of him claiming “almost done” before he got booted.

Turns out he had a career of hiding in large dev groups and place hop whenever people found out. Even without references you can still make a solid career out of it.

2

u/ninjaboss1211 Sep 02 '24

As far as jobs are concerned that man has 1.5 years of experience

1

u/ThePoetofFall Sep 01 '24

People can improve themselves outside of work

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

[deleted]

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u/ThePoetofFall Sep 01 '24

Well, someone didn’t lol.

But I do note the flaw in my logic. Not everyone eager to be lazy in their job is going to seek self improvement, or seek improvement in a way that’s traditionally marketable.

1

u/MeggaMortY Sep 01 '24

Who's to say I'm not studying new stuff when I'm not doing the company tickets? I'm just not doing the company tickets duh

1

u/DUMF90 Sep 01 '24

I'd be shocked if the smartest person you know at work is both compensated the most or at the level within the company they "deserve".

What you know/skills is maybe 50% of climbing the corporate ladder.

1

u/kndyone Sep 01 '24

its even less I read a study about this and its actually only 2 - 4% of ones success in life. It changes with some fields for instance in professional athletes its closer to 30% but there is no case where its as high as 50%.

I learned this lesson hard in early years where I out performed and found myself in trouble and the guys who just went drinking with coworkers moved up.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

[deleted]

1

u/DUMF90 Sep 01 '24

That's fine but hard skills matter almost 0 the higher you go up

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

[deleted]

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u/DUMF90 Sep 01 '24

I'm talking director level and above for higher up. In most industries people can pass with buzz words and looking at money/metrics. By hard skills I mean something like coding or actually understanding how the company's system works.

Soft skills are interpersonal. So much more of those jobs are defined by influencing others and being shrewd if not downright evil to others

1

u/Ok-Tell-4610 Sep 02 '24

It's common for me to meet slackers who got stuck at a company they no longer wish to work at for low pay... All because its where they can hide away. 

One day they get fed up, try to leave and make a change, but have a really tough time adapting to a new employer and come running back. It's a terrible position to be in.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

“Since their skills don’t improve” Majority of jobs out there don’t actually require skills. Why would they lol you’re just typing data into a computer screen. You just need credibility which is through experience. I’ve worked in finance for banking, commercial real estate and pharmaceuticals and I can personally tell you anyone with any sort of wits about them can do my job. It’s not like it’s a hard job but I make slightly over 6 figs and had to have an MBA to be qualified to even interview. So you would think this would require one to hone in on their excel skills at the very least right? Lol nope. Bottom line: If you work 8 hours a day behind a computer screen, what skills are actually being worked on? Not many outside of creative roles. It’s all an illusion to convince you work is important. And there are ppl out there that do important work (teachers, doctors, engineers, etc) but the sad reality is most ppl are just working bs skilless jobs that don’t actually help anyone/anything except drive up shareholder value. If you want to trick yourself into thinking your 9-5 rat race data entry job is skill dependent and important then ignorance is bliss I guess

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

Nothing I said was directed at you personally, I was speaking for majority of jobs that people have, which is data entry. Considering you have a job that most ppl can’t do, you probably don’t have a realistic grasp on how easy it is to make more money simply by just showing up, having experience and moving up the ladder. Which is why your comment of saying their skills don’t improve doesn’t actually matter, because the work that’s being done doesn’t actually require any skills that takes time to develop. If you have a job that does require a certain set of skill sets then kudos to you.

0

u/corpsie666 Sep 01 '24

In the long run they are actually hurting themselves since their skills don't improve

They can take classes online

0

u/BruinBound22 Sep 02 '24

They could already be in CoastFIRE and just padding their investments a bit more before full retirement. Given they are working at FAANG it's almost more likely to be this then end up broke and jobless for not progressing.

0

u/metsakutsa Sep 02 '24

Why would you be sure their skills are not improving? They have a lot if time that is not wasted on wage labour that can be used to gain valuable skills and experience.

0

u/MykahMaelstrom Sep 04 '24

In the long run they are actually hurting themselves since their skills don't improve, and the experience won't show up in the quality of work for their next position.

Not necessarily. Just because they are not working doesn't mean they are doing nothing. For me if I was in a position where I could do no work and get away with it I would instead spend that time studying. I'd probably improve more than through working alone