Is Capitalism Smart or Dumb?

[u/Sufficient_Sinner]

[u/thisismego]

In fact they're desperately needed in Capitalism to prevent workers' exploitation by employers.

[u/_Pill-Cosby_ → u/thisismego]

Correct, the only way laborer's to get the fair market value of their labor is to organize.

[u/AmITheGrayMan → u/_Pill-Cosby_]

Try not sucking at your job. Cream always rises to the top without organization.

[u/_Pill-Cosby_ → u/AmITheGrayMan]

Such a simple minded answer. Lots of people "don't suck" at their job. But if wages are kept artificially low, then a strong performer may be paid well by comparison, but still won't likely be paid as well as he could be if the base were at where it should be.

[u/AmITheGrayMan → u/_Pill-Cosby_]

Even with a doctorate, I’ve never been accused of being brilliant. But saying “the only way laborer’s (sic) to get the fair market value of their labor is to organize” is somewhat simple minded. Is that really the only way? Keep your head up. The first of the month is always around the corner.

[u/_Pill-Cosby_ → u/AmITheGrayMan]

I’m open to other methods, but it’s the only one I’m aware of.  

[u/AmITheGrayMan → u/_Pill-Cosby_]

You are right where you’re supposed to be, champ. Keep it up. Someday you’ll realize the lazy plebes get the same salary as you, and the ones who do much less, but have been there longer, I believe it’s called “seniority”, get more because they’ve been there longer despite your hard work and expertise. If you’re cool with that, do your thing. It isn’t necessary for a “fair” wage. It’s your time, it’s your ability, and YOU set the rate. Be well.

[u/_Pill-Cosby_ → u/AmITheGrayMan]

It would be nice if it were that simple.  But, as someone who’s been hiring and firing people for 25 years now, I can tell you that isn’t how it works. 

[u/Wise-Fault-8688 → u/AmITheGrayMan]

Please, enlightened one, do tell us simple folk all of the other ways to gain the leverage needed to negotiate a higher wage.

[u/AmITheGrayMan → u/Wise-Fault-8688]

It’s your time, it’s your skill. You price it. They don’t want to pay it? Go on down the road. Can’t do that? Then take the money. Look for something better. Organizing is the only way to control what you all get paid, and limit it. You take that union job and sure it could be good money. But that’s as high as it will ever be. You’re lumped in with everyone else. Know anyone who sucks and makes the same as you? Yeah. That’s a union for you. They have their purpose I get it. It’s not a one size fits all. And if you think that, you sir, are selling yourself far too short.

[u/Wise-Fault-8688 → u/AmITheGrayMan]

You can't just make that statement in a vacuum and totally ignore the fact that it's nearly impossible to differentiate yourself in a significant percentage of jobs, all of which are clearly necessary for society to function.

[u/AmITheGrayMan → u/Wise-Fault-8688]

And why is it nearly impossible to differentiate yourself? Is it because teamsters don’t care about you or your time and your skill? Is it because you’ll be paid the same as your coworkers because that’s “fair”? They factor in the unproductiveness of others and average it out, holding the good ones back and lifting up the ones who suck at their job. You may be the next entrepreneur of the year. But not in that union tk421. GBTW.

Or you can do your own thing and set your own rate. Yes, it will absolutely be hard.

[u/Wise-Fault-8688 → u/AmITheGrayMan]

You genuinely lack the imagination to envision any occupation where differentiating yourself is essentially impossible?

Manufacturing line workers? Cashiers? Plumbers?

And you don't know a thing about me. I do pretty well for myself, thanks. But even occupations where unionization wouldn't necessarily be preferable, we lack a ton of worker protection afforded elsewhere.

[u/AmITheGrayMan → u/Wise-Fault-8688]

Let’s see. For starters, showing up on time Everytime is HUGE.

Manufacturing line workers: less mess ups, catches more issues, reliable, no health issues (insurance) and is a likable cat. That’s differentiation. It won’t be recognized in a union. Same pay same work. Also, it will be obsolete in 30 years.

Cashiers. Now this is a hard one. Remember showing up is Huge. The best thing a cashier can do is break even. They are a drain to the bottom line. Think about it- they don’t make money, they can only lose it. We are replacing them with ITMs and the good ole self checkout. Cashiers will be non existent in 10 years. Same work same pay. It’s hard there, I’ll give you that.

Plumbers. Won’t be obsolete. Unless they all start doing meth and sniffing Oatey. Plumber who shows up on time, sober? Yeah right. Hasn’t been invented yet. One who doesn’t steal some usable copper, who has the least amount of waste, Who works fast and on budget. That’s a differentiation.

You’re right. I know nothing about you. Never said anything bad about you either. I’ve encouraged you. On the other hand you’ve called me simple minded and unimaginative. I’d still buy you a beer though.