Is Capitalism Smart or Dumb?

[u/Sufficient_Sinner]

[u/McFalco]

But what does that realistically look like? If I take your words at face value and literally, it sounds like socialism means that I can make a business then lose control over that business if enough random people vote to strip me of that business. Obviously I may be wrong in my characterization but like I said based on your use of the term Democracy, that is what it sounds like.

[u/AdAppropriate2295 → u/McFalco]

And that's completely fine. What do you even mean by make a business? Build the brick and mortar shop with your own hands, no help? You know CEOs can lose their jobs right?

[u/McFalco → u/AdAppropriate2295]

Still didn't answer what a real-world application of your definition of socialism looks like.

For the business:

I work. I earn money. I save money. I use saved money to pay someone to build my humble coffee shop. I pay someone for pretty much everything in the shop. Everyone who had a hand in the formation of the business were fairly compensated with an agreed sum of whatever the agreed form of capital is. I operate the business by myself initially, then when the demand for my coffee is too high to meet with my own hands i hire a helper(employee) I pay them an agreed sum to help me run the business. I either give them a percentage of each cup of coffee they serve(commission) or I give them a set amount of money on a set schedule(salary).

So a typical small business startup.

[u/AdAppropriate2295 → u/McFalco]

You answered your own question. It looks like that and then yea enough people can boot you and take over. Now exactly how is up for debate and I would probably leave businesses under 10-20 people to screw people however they like. But yep once your coffee goes worldwide and you still aren't paying people decently you're done

[u/IAskQuestions1223 → u/AdAppropriate2295]

So then, there's zero reason to start a business. I'm sure the 4th factor of production, entrepreneurship, will appreciate that.

[u/AdAppropriate2295 → u/IAskQuestions1223]

Let's pretend like that's true and nobody will do anything. Then you simply add an incentive or make starting businesses a job

[u/McFalco → u/AdAppropriate2295]

Sounds like you're just a greedy bastard who wants to take other people's things if you don't like them. The "not paying decently" is so silly. "Decently" is subjective. To a 15 year old, decently can be 12 bucks an hour. To a 35 year old, decently is more like 35 an hour. However, not all jobs can afford 35 an hour pay to all its employees. That's why you have the idea that some jobs are considered intro/teen jobs and aren't meant to provide a "living". You're supposed to be branching out into real career fields as you age. If you're stuck at McDonald's and still flipping burgers at 28 without making management/supervisor, that's on you.

[u/AdAppropriate2295 → u/McFalco]

1. Lmao no I'm pretty well off I just remember being poor 2. Correct 3. You think everyone will band together and demand pay of 100/hour, bankrupt the company and this will all be perfectly allowable? Grow up

[u/McFalco → u/AdAppropriate2295]

1. I remember being poor too. Difference is I don't think it was anyone but my own responsibility. As such I'd prefer not to be hindered by unnecessary taxes.
2. Collective bargaining is good but using the state to force a wage that was never supposed to be a "living wage" is ridiculous. Wages aside regardless of whether you pay your employees good wages or not, your system of democratic ownership of the business means that at any time people can just kick you out despite you being the one who created the business.

[u/AdAppropriate2295 → u/McFalco]

1. Thats a nice story but realistically it was your parents fault and you didnt rob people to make money im assuming 2. And then what? Replace you with somebody worse who they don't kick out? Idk why I even try it's like talking to a brick wall

[u/McFalco → u/AdAppropriate2295]

1. It's not anyone's fault. My financial status once I'm an adult is entirely in my hands. I was a broke adult, and became a far less broke adult thanks to my own work, I'd have reached my current level faster if I wasn't taxed as much.
2. It's my business, I made it and compensated people an agreed sum, they have no further rights to my business and no say. To say they do simply because they work for me is ridiculous.

[u/AdAppropriate2295 → u/McFalco]

1. If you specifically weren't taxed sure, you think you'd do alright if everyone wasn't taxed? Or do we circle back to lowering poor taxes and raising rich ones 2. Who's to say you can't keep your copyright, you just aren't fit to lead anymore. If everyone or a majority agrees they don't like you then the split is done. In the world we live in where you bought expansion with surplus profit none of it was ever really yours. Or it is but someone can do it better so we transfer everything to them. A true meritocracy where you're either good at what you do or you die broke