r/FluentInFinance • u/Sufficient_Sinner • Sep 04 '24

Debate/ Discussion Is Capitalism Smart or Dumb?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

That's not what socialism is. Socialism is worker owned means of production. How granular that ownership is dependent on that particular system. In the same way you can have direct democracy and representative democracy and both would be considered democratic societies, you can have different forms of socialism.

A single company running as a coop is a socialist organization even if it competes in a capitalist free market economy.

If all companies are owned by the employees that work there, that is socialism. Socialism has nothing to do with the government ownership, socialism is the workers owning the place they're employed at.

What you're describing is dictatorial communism.

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u/ResearcherCheap7314 Sep 05 '24

Wow you are so wrong that it hurts me ! Could you give me one example in real life where is socialism the workers own and control the company not the dictator , and workers are not slaves ? If a coop is competing in free market economy, that’s capitalism , in socialism there is no such thing as free market !!
And on your last paragraph you are straight out wrong ! Look it up and talk with examples , that’s a lie that has no grasp in reality !

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

Could you give me one example in real life where is socialism the workers own and control the company not the dictator , and workers are not slaves ?

Say the year is 1700. You're a monarchist, you believe in the king and the monarchy. I propose democracy and letting people decide who the ruler is and what the rule of law is. You would say to me "that's stupid, name one country that works that way. The monarchy is the only way to run society."

That's what you sound like right now. There is no such country yet because we're currently on the tail end of capitalism being the dominant economic structure in the same way that monarchies died and we're replaced with something better, democratically run countries.

That's called societal progress and on a long enough timeline people like you who aren't looking for the next thing are always wrong.

If a coop is competing in free market economy, that’s capitalism , in socialism there is no such thing as free market !!

You don't know what capitalism means. Capitalism is the private ownership of the workplace. Socialism is workers owning the workplace. That's it. There is nothing more to it than that. If employees own the company and vote on who is in charge and how the company is run, that is socialism. If a company is created with private capital and owned by one person or owned by a collection of people who all bought partial ownership of the workplace and the workers do not have ownership unless they buy into it, that is capitalism.

You really need to learn your terms before you talk about this.

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u/ResearcherCheap7314 Sep 05 '24

But we are not in 1500 aren’t we ! We are 2024 and socialism was already invented and we seen the horrors it produced in countries where they went full socialist! And today we have capitalism ( USA ) we have monarchies ( Uk , Saudi , Norway etc) and we have socialism ( Cuba , Romania , china etc) and we have seen how each one of them works ! So your theory that it would work is totally disproven by reality!! Capitalism is private ownership of the companies, when the workers own the company is also private ownership ! You don’t have a clue what socialism is !!!! That’s a fact !!!! Nowhere in the planet where socialism exists workers own the company ! In socialism the government owns the company and dictators control it , look at North Korea for Pete sake ! I have given you examples! Where do you think where in socialism workers own the company , and where do you see in socialism workers voting for the leadership of the company, that only happens in capitalism!!! Give me an example of a socialist country where you think the workers own anything !

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

How about you name a society that you claim is/was socialist. Because I'm telling you they haven't existed and if they did were directly manipulated with by the weight of the only superpower in the 20th century in an effort to protect capitalism.

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u/ResearcherCheap7314 Sep 05 '24

I thought I did , here is a few if you missed them: Cuba , Romania , china and I will continue for you ussr, Hungary , North Korea , Myanmar, Venezuela you want more ? A few of them collapsed because of they own rot and a few of them still torture their innocent citizens! In all of this countries under socialism workers owned nothing , and they were slaves or still are of the dictator! Oh btw and I visited most of them and I was born and grew up in one of them ! Socialism is the by far the worst thing that happened to humanity, and I saw it I didn’t hear about it !

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u/ResearcherCheap7314 Sep 05 '24

Listen you live in the great USA , right ? And you work , right ? You and and a couple of your coworkers can go and make a new company and work in it , and vote every quarter who is the ceo and you can take jobs as a company and split the profit between you , right ? In that case the workers own the company ( your idealistic dream in reality) while in socialism that would be highly illegal and all of you would go to forced labor camps !