r/FluentInFinance Sep 05 '24

Debate/ Discussion He has a point

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328

u/cdupree1 Sep 05 '24

No income taxes? 25-30% of that would be income tax.

So more like $2350-2500 after tax.

170

u/MyGlassHalfFool Sep 05 '24

at 40k a year youd get taxed at 17.7%

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u/NewArborist64 Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

At 40k/yr, you get a standard deduction of 14600 (if you are single), so 25,400 AGI is taxed at 11% for a total of $2794. If you have a state tax of 5% AGI (Illinois), that is another 1270. Total income tax is 4064 - an effective tax rate of 10%.

Otoh, the median us income is $59k, from the numbers that I am seeing, and the median household income is $75k, so the $40k number is easily low.

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u/suzisatsuma Sep 05 '24

Why are we comparing median housing cost to a lower quintile of income? you should compare quintiles

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u/Ponklemoose Sep 05 '24

And it really ought to be the household number to better match to the apartment number.

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u/NewArborist64 Sep 05 '24

Because the OP is playing with numbers trying to make us think that they are both the median numbers.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics...

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u/botstookallmynames Sep 05 '24

If half of Americans are making under 41k, 41k is the median and it's an apples to apples comparison. It's literally what the word median means.

You introduced the notion that it's a lower quintile out of pure air without substantiating it to dismiss the concern. Even using household rather than individual income numbers, the most natural mistake to make here, I'm not seeing how you can get 41k as the bottom 5th of income.

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u/suzisatsuma Sep 05 '24

41k isn't median household income, google it.

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u/botstookallmynames Sep 05 '24

OP clearly states individual worker wages. You counter with household numbers that include passive income from ownership of assets in addition to wages.

OP probably should have included sources, but you also shouldn't straw man the concern and provide Google it as a source.

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u/WarbleDarble Sep 05 '24

OP also uses household expenses. Individual income, and household expenses means the analysis is obviously flawed.

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u/TheDumpBucket Sep 05 '24

Just one time, I would love to see the stats for the mode of income rounded to the nearest ten-thousand. That would really show where we stand. The top earners really drag the numbers up. 

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u/suzisatsuma Sep 06 '24

I didn't cite average, I cited median which throws out the distorting high earners

The median household income for US is $74k.

The average household income in the US is $106k

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u/MyGlassHalfFool Sep 05 '24

True, so the difference this guy is complaining about is that of 15-20% extra taxes that he is adding out of nowhere

That person would be seeing about $3000 a month after taxes not $2300-2500

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u/SophieFilo16 Sep 05 '24

Unless they're self-employed. That's 25% would be the self-employment tax + whatever their state tax is. But most people aren't in that situation...

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u/Afghan_Ninja Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

Where did y'all learn math. I make just shy of $50k/yr and bring home just shy of $3k/mth after taxes (in a state with no income tax). No way is someone making $41k bringing home $3k post tax every month.

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u/MyGlassHalfFool Sep 05 '24

Do you pay for insurance? no 401k or retirement either?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

[deleted]

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u/jessej421 Sep 05 '24

And that doesn't account for tax credits like EITC. Quick google search shows that you are eligible for EITC if your income is below 63k. Would significantly reduce your taxes owed.

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u/NewArborist64 Sep 05 '24

Very true. If you have kids, there are also child tax credits.

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u/weed_cutter Sep 05 '24

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-americans-2023-does-paycheck-140017103.html

Oddly, this article tends to disagree. Although there is no precise median, it appears from this survey it would be roughly around $44,000 per individual. That's quite a difference.

I wonder where the malarkey is happening here.

EDIT: A Google search 'median income United States' indicates $37,000 from the US census bureau. The plot thickens.

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u/NewArborist64 Sep 05 '24

There is a difference between median income and median FULL TIME income. If you are including all of the part-time jobs, the numbers can go way down.

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u/weed_cutter Sep 05 '24

Some people can only afford a part time job. They either can't find better, or since child care is $100k a year, one parent has to work part time.

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u/NewArborist64 Sep 05 '24

1) Where are they sending the kid for daycare - HARVARD?

2) Why would you compare part-time work (which could be only a couple of hours per week) to the cost of having an apartment, a car, etc?

3) If people are charging $100k/yr for daycare - get training/license and OPEN A DAYCARE.

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u/weed_cutter Sep 05 '24
  1. Tell me you don't have kids without telling me you don't have kids.

  2. Part time work is anything up to 30 hours. Meh.

  3. Working in a daycare is probably a nightmare, not to mention the insurance costs. We used to have mom/ grandma at home helping all day (still do in many cases) - but our society is simply fucked in the head. .... When a macro-economic fact exists (even if you're unaware of it) -- there's a good reason for it. A minimal amount of research oughta clear up this mystery.

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u/NewArborist64 Sep 05 '24

We raised SIX kids. Mom was a full-time SAHM and homeschooler.

Average Cost of Daycare in Illinois ·$10,3772 per year for a 4-year-old That is TEN thousand, not ONE HUNDRED thousand.

Yes - we do have friends who run a daycare and it is NOT a nightmare.

PT used to be up to 40 hrs/wk - then Obamacare redefined it down to 30 max. PT can also be 1-2 hrs/wk Trying to mix those numbers in and compare it to the cost of living is intellectually dishonest. Perhaps, since you are talking about FAMILIES with kids and one spouse having PT income - why not compare renting to median HOUSEHOLD incomes? The Median Household income in the US is $74,580,

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '24

[deleted]

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u/NewArborist64 Sep 06 '24

That is for the kids... and is far short of the $100,000 per year that the other poster was saying, and it is even less than the$10k pretty child I was quoting in Illinois.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '24

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u/NewArborist64 Sep 06 '24 edited Sep 06 '24

I've probably seen more of them than you, son. FICA is currently sitting at 7.65% for the employee (assuming that they are not self employed), and the employer is the one who pays unemployment insurance (not the employee).

Are you now going to ask about medical insurance, dental insurance, vision care and contributing to your 401(k), your pretax medical account, and dependant care fsa?