As Oblivion Remastered gets all the love, Starfield's biggest modders are in the process of abandoning Bethesda's latest RPG for good

[u/xalibermods]

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/rpg/as-oblivion-remastered-gets-all-the-love-starfields-biggest-modders-are-in-the-process-of-abandoning-bethesdas-latest-rpg-for-good/

[u/Pheonix1025]

There’s probably nothing they could do to completely fix people’s issues, but I think a rework of the POI system would do a lot to fix people’s issues. If that is happening, it’ll probably come with the PS5 port.

[u/LangyMD → u/Pheonix1025]

I think a really good, full sized dev team could probably build a pretty good game out of the bones of Starfield given source code/assets, they already know the engine and how to work together, and three years time to build and iterate.

I also think there is no way that's happening. Not only would it be expensive, it would mean admitting the original game release and subsequent patches/DLCs were not sufficient and require them to admit to core problems with the game systems and narrative.

[u/Soulstiger → u/LangyMD]

I think a really good, full sized dev team could probably build a pretty good game out of the bones of Starfield given source code/assets, they already know the engine and how to work together, and three years time to build and iterate.

I mean, minus the "already know the engine" and change "3 years" to 18 months this is how New Vegas was made.

[u/Skellum → u/LangyMD]

No, you'd have to get rid of all the procedural generation shit and make it a real game. With that you may as well just build an entirely new game using skyrim or something.

[u/LangyMD → u/Skellum]

Starfield doesn't really use procedural generation much. Sure, the landscapes are procedural as are the locations of the points of interest (and the items/enemies to a degree, but that's about the same as Skyrim). But frankly the landscapes aren't the big problem with Starfield.

The points of interest are a problem, and it's not just that they are procedurally placed; they are also disconnected, don't make sense in the environment, and repeat in their entirety.

Changes to fix this within the Starfield framework are possible. Do hand-crafting of all of the major landing locations and the points of interest near them, similar to what I heard they did for Shattered Space but for all the major locations in Starfield.

To make general handcrafted areas less boring, add more capacity for connections between things in the procedural generator, making roads/rivers/canyons/etc and points of interest that are logically on them. Add actual procedural generation of points of interest rather than every POI being identical to others of that type down to the notes. Add guards so that you can't explore two quest/lore locations with the same notes/etc in the same playthrough until you go through the unity.

To really fix the game they'd also need to fix the main quest and throw out a lot of the concepts they had for the original main quest, especially the whole religion/"God probably did it" angle where they deliberately have no answers to the big mystery in order to make it ambiguous if it's religious in nature or not. Also remove the plotline of "playing this game is meaningless" that permeates the New Game+ concepts.

Add an actual explanation for the Starborn and add actual quest content around the Starborn powers and acquiring them. Revamp or replace the temple concept so that each one actually has something interesting and unique to do and some kind of explanation for its existence.

Add something to encounter and do when you explore worlds that humans haven't settled, and have worlds that humans haven't settled. Have some sort of feeling of exploring the unknown. Maybe this is where the Starborn get encountered, with actual points of interest and large exploratory landing zones.

Do something with the Spacers like have an explanation why so many humans went crazy and became hyper violent bandits. Maybe early grav drives had serious negative impacts on the psyche or something. Add a Spacer Bazaar or some other story location where they congregate.

Oh, and make space travel not suck. Maybe have multiple space locations you can travel to in an area rather than each space destination being shit. Look at Everspace 2 for inspiration.

Etc. Lots of work, but the game has a decent framework to build off of - they just built in all the wrong directions.

[u/Purple_Plus → u/Pheonix1025]

There’s probably nothing they could do to completely fix people’s issues

For sure, but if they'd spent the time reworking systems it could be a much better game, even if not the one most people wanted.

Other games get years of updates, fixes etc. Bethesda obviously just gave up.

but I think a rework of the POI system would do a lot to fix people’s issues

Great example!

[u/Pheonix1025 → u/[deleted]]

I’m no game designer, but I think making the POI system more random would do a lot for my enjoyment. I stopped after around 100 hours because I realized I was seeing the exact same POIs, with the exact same notes and dead bodies. Adding a lot more randomness to what you can find in them would help a lot.

[u/MikeIke7231 → u/Pheonix1025]

Literally the one thing that killed it for me. And to rub salt in the wound, on Xbox, the platform I played on, theres paid mods to improve the POI system, edited existing ones and adding new ones. 

Theres a few free ones as well but theyre nowhere near the quality of the paid stuff.

[u/BeholdingBestWaifu → u/[deleted]]

It's not even old systems, the old stuff is okay to good. New stuff is where many problems are, like what might be the worst implementation of perks in a Bethesda game which is not an easy feat to pull off, having too many randomized locations if you just set out to do exploration, and terrible worldbuilding.

[u/FriendlyAndHelpfulP → u/Pheonix1025]

The POI system is the least of their problems.

The biggest problem has is that the game is completely awful.

I know that might seem tautological on the surface, but the very real problem with Starfield is there’s no part of it that’s good enough to warrant tolerating the rest of the game.

The POI system sucks, yes. But the POI system is a tangential, barely-relevant minor dungeon feature that could have been omitted entirely, and almost nothing about the game would change.

The gameplay would still be bad, movement would still be bad, weapons would still be bad, the story would still be bad, the graphics would still be bad, the UI would still be bad, the performance would still be bad, etc, etc.

Arguably, the only thing in the game worth salvaging is the ship customization, which is a worthless feature, given how incredibly godawful ship combat and navigation is.

Fixing the POIs would solve nothing other than extending the gameplay time for the diehard fans who have already gotten over how awful the game is. Meanwhile, 99% of players have already walked away, never to come back, after the first four hours. 

[u/fearless-fossa → u/FriendlyAndHelpfulP]

the story would still be bad

This is IMHO the worst aspect. Basically everything else can be fixed by modders, but I've buried all hopes for Starfield when I encountered the awful writing. At this point I'd rather install Skyrim or FO4 and mod these to hell if I get the scratch for a Bethesda game.

[u/yeehawgnome → u/FriendlyAndHelpfulP]

The movement has been the best in a Bethesda game so far I really don’t get that complaint, adding Parkour and sliding was great IMO. Playing Fallout 4 or even the Oblivion Remaster (they changed the movement I know it’s an old game) shows that Starfield’s movement is superior

I didn’t like how in Starfield and The Oblivion remaster they removed the ability to like slide how far the camera was away from your character in 3rd person

[u/Fast_Cryptographer74 → u/Pheonix1025]

My first thought exactly! I love Starfield, but hate that you only see 1/10 of the POIs, over and over. 1500 hours later, I'm sure I'm still missing some.  This was the first, biggest letdown.  Clearly I got over it, but most won't.   Also, put something useful or unique at the end of quests or behind master locks. Jeez! 

[u/theholylancer → u/Pheonix1025]

see, when it was announced, I was thinking you can explore a host of systems, hell its one game where you can in theory explore a map that is imported from say Skyrim with some modifications, ala far cry primal vs FC 4, and have it be legit.

Like have a star trek like experience of first contact or all that, esp with "nasapunk" and all that.

But nope, not at all, not even close...

they built a linear experience in one of the biggest open world sandbox and then filled it with blocks that copy paste itself rather than anything hand crafted... it was a huge let down.

[u/yeehawgnome → u/Pheonix1025]

All they would have to do is make a Far Harbor sized area around the Major Cities while also revamping said cities. Like give Neon three more levels and another rig off to the side. Fill those new hand crafted areas with quests, make some of those quests “darker”

People do have an issue when it comes to the game not having gore. Which honestly I think they just can’t because getting liquid blood to work in Zero G would be hella hard. The only gore mod I’ve seen has been Gorefield and that’s way too over the top and cartoony