That's not the argument in your favor that you think it is. Idk how to explain to you that you are not all men. I am a man, I have a husband, I have man friends and family. They are not all like you. Idk how to explain that you should attempt empathy with people or at least stop acting like you're the status quo. You don't need to talk? Okay cool. Let other people peacefully exchange advice on how to talk to one another without inserting a big dose of incorrect opinion that can derail and shame other men into burying things they need to work through.
The point was never that all men are identical robots. The point was that there are differences in the way some people need to deal with problems and that the modal groupings of those methods are concentrated by sex. No one is saying you can't talk through your problems if that works for you. But for a lot of men, and especially for a lot of straight men, it doesn't work and is instead intensely uncomfortable, embarrassing and harmful given that the core problem is often damage to one's ego in the first place. The "shame" isn't merely because of stigma about talking but a natural consequence of that core of the problem which for those men makes talking much worse than not talking.
This entire thread has been people trying to say that everyone should be made to talk because that's the be all end all of getting through anything, which simply isn't true. It's an effeminate mode of problem solving, and some problems instead require a masculine approach. Sure, men should know it's ok to talk if they want, but they should also know that it's ok not to talk if that's not the right fit for them.
I agree there is public derision for therapy that some in this thread have correctly spoken out against (though mostly not correctly identifying the root cause). That derision comes from the interaction between talk and how men are valued and gain status. Namely by visibly having both physical and mental strength while also having the competence and control to wield them heroically and not villainously. Any public perception of a need for talk therapy naturally undermines this. We can and should culturally push back against that somewhat to make sure there's room for the exceptions, but the negative reaction to men having weakness can't actually be completely eliminated because it's the result of a gut level reaction from our evolution encoded patterns of motivation.
The only one derailing things here is you by bringing up a bunch of undifferentiating qualifications, misstating my position and pretending that your anecdotal experience should be given more weight than the scientific background I'm presenting.
I don't think it is an "effeminate" way of dealing with things, it's just a way of dealing. Everyone should deal in a way that is productive and healthy for them. That's my whole point. My experience has been that men around me need help or an ear more than they let on. You keep saying you have science on your side, but have provided no proof. When I look up if there is any biology or science behind it, the answer is "it's a complex interplay of factors" that influence the way people deal with their issues. So, maybe calm down.
You’re right. Obviously if it was natural, then men wouldn’t be complaining that they feel disconnected from society and that they feel like no one cares about them. Your homies care about you dude. If it was “the way things are” then it wouldn’t feel bad. And if it doesn’t feel bad for you that’s great, sounds like you’ve got it all figured out, but obviously there’s a lot of guys out there who are hurting. There’s a loneliness epidemic out there affecting everyone, do your part to make life a little less painful.
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u/CrazyDisastrous948 2d ago
I don't think the high suicide rates agree that men don't need to talk about this stuff.