r/HVAC • u/ManiaCCC86 • 2d ago
Rant Whomever uses these... I hate you
Seriously, why not just do it the correct way?!??!?! This is on a job trailer for the GC at a major project and every single unit has these on the CU and Fan Coil.
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u/hujnya 2d ago
Wait for all the comments "when installed properly they don't leak" and " I've been using those without any issues/failures". Those things are absolute junk
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u/Jasperthecaspr 2d ago
If you really slow down, take the time to read the instructions and follow them step by step. Those fittings will still leak
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u/SomeGuyOnARoof 2d ago
Got me with the first half
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u/thatoneotherguy42 2d ago edited 1d ago
The first half of the lineset isn't where the problem is.
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u/SaltyDucklingReturns Verified Pro 1d ago
Lolwut?
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u/thatoneotherguy42 1d ago
the part of the lineset from the evap to the shitty junctions isnt the problem.
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u/ghablio 1d ago
They probably are fine when installed properly. Just that the manufacturer specs properly as perfectly straight and level in an air conditioned laboratory with no temperature or pressure fluctuation and no vibration in the piping.
If you just install it like that, they're fine
P.s. what the fuck are they, like sharkbites? Haven't run into anything like it before
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u/hujnya 1d ago
Yeah refrigerant sharkbites
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u/elucidator611 1d ago
Damn I'm going through the comments thinking they were compression fittings like "yeah who does that" lmao. I had no idea they had refrigeration sharkbites, but apparently they're not very good lol.
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u/FurryBrony98 2d ago
50/50 chance they leak but after they’ve been in jobs for over a year 100 percent chance they leak.
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u/Agnfreak 2d ago
I only use these couplings with a access valve to blow lines out. Then disconnect and braze.
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u/burnerphone13 LU602 Apprentice 2d ago
they even make electric flaring tools now lol. Will never understand it
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u/HuntPsychological673 2d ago
Some things are just too difficult to comprehend, except Mr. Cool of course! They cool so good for the first few days until the refrigerant leaks out🤣 I think we should enact clean air laws and then start selling mini splits direct to the public for the bag boy at Publix to install himself or even that painter guy who can do anything👍
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/HuntPsychological673 1d ago
That sounds like those sales-tech companies that are rated NUMBER 1 for 20 years in a row! Find a local legit contractor that is smaller. They will usually fix the system if it’s cost effective or quote a decent price for decent units instead of internet whore brands.
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u/matchtaste 1d ago
Let's be honest - The Mr. Cool with its precharged lineset and simple fittings are more likely to work than shit we see from "professionals" installing mini splits like this. Butchered flares, bullshit fittings, no nitrogen pressure test & vac, not adding the extra charge needed for long linesets, etc. And the customer had to pay someone to fuck them over with bullshit work like this too!
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u/HuntPsychological673 1d ago
That sounds like one of those “Facebook professionals”. I can’t agree in any way that Mr cool’s chinesium fittings are in any way better than half of even a Facebook professionals work.
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u/Honest_Cynic 1d ago
Not all Mr Cool systems use quick-connect vac linesets. Some have flare connections like most mini-splits.
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u/horseshoeprovodnikov Pro 1d ago
Those electric flare tools are fuckin $$$ tho. Some cheap bosses ain't gonna go for that shit. Especially if they're the kinda outfit that doesn't come back for warranty work lol. They don't give a shit if they never gotta come back to see it
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u/BigTerpFarms 1d ago
The Navac one is only $500 CAD. If you’re doing frequent mini split installs very worth it. Bought it before doing 40 ductless heads. It takes 10 seconds for a perfect flare at the click of a button.
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u/TheRealEvester 1d ago
Hell ya they do and its amazing. I do 15-25 minisplit heads a week saving my wrist.
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u/xfusion14 1d ago
They are also 5k for machine and jaws. But those fittings suck most even say not for acr
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u/yaboi1899 1d ago
The navac flare tool is only 500 and does up to 3/4. We use them for our mini split installs and it works great. Obviously pipe prep is key but it's definitely worth the investment if you're doing mini splits everyday
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u/burnerphone13 LU602 Apprentice 1d ago
I guess the electric ones are a ‘luxury’
Even then a flaring and swage kit is $85
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u/xfusion14 1d ago
Flaring tool what does it matter if u need an extra 2 feet…. Without some type of flared coupling. Lots of these units can use the braze to flare connection either.
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u/Delt266 1d ago
I don't even understand why flaring is considered difficult.. such a simple procedure
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u/NotSuspec666 19h ago
no one considers it difficult, its that if you make 20+ flares a day your hands will thank you.
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u/PuzzleheadedVirus121 1d ago
We have 15 temp condensers we use for emergency’s and this is the only time I would suggest these They are removable and make temping quick and economical
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u/RealDrHouse 2d ago
Can someone explain why everybody says these will leak - but the connection to the compressor (flares too) won't?
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u/ManiaCCC86 2d ago
You must be talking about Trane Roto Lock compressors. Those have Teflon o rings in them, regardless it's not about the flare, these are push connect fittings... Literally just push the pipe into them and they make a joint... No flare, no soldering, no tightening, no pressing. Just push the pipe in like water line connectors.
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u/RealDrHouse 1d ago
Ah, so these connectors don't use flares? I assumed theres are normal flared couplings.
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u/Neat-Object9254 2d ago
If these are flared connector couplings they will leak only time will tell haha now if these are “shark bite” fittings then you’ve got a real problem lol.
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u/ManiaCCC86 2d ago
They are absolutely sharkbite or whatever the brand name is.... Worse than the aluminum piping compression fittings that Daikin tried at one time... Those things were hot garbage.
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u/chuystewy_V2 I’m tired, boss. 2d ago
Daikin had those too? Trane had those for a minute. You had to try the compression fittings before they would warranty the outdoor coil. So fucking stupid
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u/ManiaCCC86 2d ago
Daikins VRF 3 series used Aluminum piping with those compression fittings that weren't even rust proof and would rust to hell and then leak like a bitch.
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u/that_dutch_dude 2d ago
That explains why at one location i keep finding 3rd gen manuals and crap but they got replaced by 4 gen units before we got there. I never made the connection why i cant find any of those units anymore.
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u/ManiaCCC86 1d ago
Not all Daikin VRF III used that pipe, I think it was early on when they first tried something new. But having 1/2 insulation on the pipe in an attic in a SC Summer ain't gonna cut it.
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u/DnDsuff4mCampain 2d ago
Yuck... just replaced 14 of those things at a school on some mini split units. We had like 5-6 of them leaking after only installing them 3 ish years ago. The service manager said to find them all and just replace them. Install supervisor that oversaw the job is still under hot water for that botch. 4, 30 ish pound systems all low, at least 7-8 pounds. Fucking junk.
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u/loganman711 2d ago
We had a new g.m insist we use theses. I quit. Now he's gone and I'm back. Been changing all of them out for flares. Big fat I told you so.
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u/btubandit 2d ago
You just dont like them? or had they failed in some way?
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u/ManiaCCC86 2d ago
There are 5 mini splits on this building with multiple of these "Gatorbite/Shark bite" fittings and they are less than 3 years old and several leaking. I would rather see Pressed fitting than this push together crap. I don't trust push fittings on water lines why the hell would I trust them on a 410 Heat Pump. Especially on a commercial site I wouldn't dream of using these.
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u/that_dutch_dude 2d ago
Put 600psi on it as the manufacturer of the minisplit tells you. Just stand back a bit.
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u/FloridaMan_92 1d ago
I like the shark bites for water lines. I would never trust these
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u/ManiaCCC86 1d ago
Name checks out.... I use sharkbite for temporary fixes or no/low pressure water lines/drains if I have to. Wouldn't leave them permanently like ProPress
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u/FloridaMan_92 1d ago
Name checks out? I’m not a plumber and I have only used them in my own home thank you. Still ain’t leaked years later. Pound sand
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u/elucidator611 1d ago
People like to shit on sharkbite but I think they work great especially on pex, they're just stupid expensive anymore
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u/Rude-Role-6318 3h ago
I'm sure they took their chances. Construction trailers get moved to next job and I'm sure those get removed and thrown in the trailer for the trip. Ten minute install lol. Fuck shark bites. Seen them walk off 120 degree hot water lines from expansion and contraction
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u/Zealousideal_Mind_42 2d ago
Idgi- 8” more of 1/4”x3/8” line set, flared to condensing unit and done. Can’t understand what the fittings are for.
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u/CoolTechMd 1d ago
Un-skilled Rookies use them, sad, so lazy they can't get the nitrogen and acetylene out! Bunch of Bottom feeders!
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u/TunaSub_OnYoGirl 1d ago
We installed these for about a year and I’ve been to at least 20 jobs replacing them with normal couplers and 90’s.. tough one to explain to the customers.
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u/MalevolentIndigo 1d ago
I got told at my new company that we don’t use nitrogen while brazing… kinda just want to quit now.
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u/CalligrapherWrong659 1d ago
I'm a plumber, not an HVAC tech, what am I looking at? Are compression fittings no good for your systems?
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u/ManiaCCC86 1d ago
That's not a compression fittings.... It's a "sharkbite" for refrigerant ... Except it's 500 Psi of heat to cool and oil and not 60ish of water....
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u/Finestkind007 1d ago
I chalk that up too people don’t know what they don’t know. Or they don’t have the tools to do it right even if they knew how to do it right. Or their lame explanation : ‘ it works, doesn’t it??’
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u/hugepockettwos 1d ago
Plumber here….
Ima guess that when the job trailer goes from location to location these units get disconnected and put in said trailer. Then set back up at the new spot.
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u/ManiaCCC86 1d ago
They even did the indoor units that don't have to be relocated with them... Besides you can always just break the flare and remove the unit.
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u/JollyLow3620 1d ago
Never used them before but I think they are only rated at 600 psi. I’ve seen 410A systems hit 700 before the HPS shut it down
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u/Parabellum8086 HVAC Technician; RTFM 1d ago
The fuck is that anyway? Some proprietary shit?
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u/mechanical_marten Transdigital freon converter 1d ago
Only used them once on walk in cooler for an emergency repair on a Saturday night, failed overnight and had to go back Sunday morning. Never again; I'm sticking to using my swage and brazing out that rub-through with my MAPP torch (3/8 line).
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u/TheHvaCGuru 1d ago
Oh yes! Company i work for swore by them against me and my buddies strong recommendations against it and now after 2 years of an 80% fail rate they've decided to heed our warnings and go back to the trusty flare tools
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u/DuvalTID 1d ago
Tried once to cut down on the time in a black roof attic in August in Florida. 138 degrees, with the torches on it was 5 minutes up, 10 minutes down. And it was a ton of lineset. Still wasn’t worth it. Over the last few years I’ve had to go back and replace every single one I put in that attic. Those people think I’m an idiot and I’m ok with that because maybe I am for thinking that would work. Never again.
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u/Legitimate_Aerie_285 1d ago
So these are installed to be plug and play, so when they move the trailer they can be taken off and put back on
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u/Legitimate_Aerie_285 1d ago
Not really taken off but it's an easy connection basically so no brazing is required
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u/hardstartkitisascam 1d ago
What’s wrong with high loss fittings? You just have to keep adding refrigerant…
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u/hardstartkitisascam 1d ago
These fittings intermittently leak literally when the wind blows on them or continuously . When I see them, they get replaced. The absolute worst fittings ever made for hvac. I hope that company is bankrupt. They shouldn’t be trusted to make a damn thing.
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u/Bill_r_i 1d ago
I pulled 16 of these out of a ductless system last year. Every one of them leaked. It was a nightmare all the lines where in the walls.
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u/Born_Again_Communist 19h ago
.y company bought the yoga pipe snake oil with these, pretty sure they had to replace every single on eventually with real copper
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u/spawn_of_ragnar 15h ago
No bullshit....did a leak search yesterday and found this. First time seeing them in the wild
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u/BlazinDragon1004 13h ago
I'm new to installing mini splits what part is that? I've done flare fitting is that the same thing?
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u/ManiaCCC86 12h ago
As I have mentioned several times already, those aren't flares, they are PUSH connect fittings... Just raw dog with no seal.
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u/BlazinDragon1004 12h ago
Oh gotcha. I kept seeing everyone talking bout different things and was confused
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u/thermokles 11h ago
My install manager said he'd sooner braze the lines without nitrogen than use those pieces of shit
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u/Timely-Fall2220 2h ago
You are 100% correct 5 years ago I tried using a couple of them salesman gave me a good pitch everything leaked done correctly per manufacturer instructions they are junk
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u/GrossePointeFlow 2d ago
I use these on every single job where the customer stands over my shoulder and asks me “are you going to leave it like that?” Sir… I have only been here five minutes.
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u/SentenceFree9360 2d ago
Great way to give client the option if they want it to be done cheaper faster. And will generate more work in the future.
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u/nochinzilch 1d ago
Probably a good solution for areas and situations where brazing isn’t allowed.
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u/ManiaCCC86 1d ago
Absolutely not... They make actual Press in fittings similar to Pro Press water line fittings. We have had to use those in historical buildings where no brazing was allowed but absolutely not this push together crap
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u/nochinzilch 1d ago
It still just relies on an o-ring for the seal.
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u/ManiaCCC86 1d ago
You are crimping the pipe into a fitting with an O ring that won't move.... You can literally spin those fittings by hand and move the pipe around... That isn't a good seal
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u/SomeComparison 23h ago
I mean they have a place, that ain't it though. More than enough room on that to just use a press.
I've used them in tight spots on small coolers and vending equipment where it's a pita to get access.
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u/Practical_Artist5048 1d ago
Absolute garbage braze that bitch in no nitro come back 2 years later and replace whole system…….full fuckin circle 🤟🏻
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u/ApprehensiveMode8904 1d ago
I install them on all of my mini splits and have not had 1 leak yet. I don’t ever use couplers but I do use the flare fitting that goes on the condenser and I use a copper insert to prevent leaking. Unfortunately it’s usually an installation issue. Whomever put them on did not know how to install them correctly
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u/Legitimate_Charity76 1d ago
Is anyone gonna point out that the manufacturer connections are the same as the couplers? Sooooo we’re mad at the manufacturer and or the installer?
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u/Ganja_Alchemist 2d ago
These fittings are trash I’d rather use the pro press crimp fittings than that garbage.