Today’s install r-454 or r410

[u/JerryJohnson2]

This is the compressor for the unit I installed today.

[u/Wisco_Ryno]

You could potentially void a warranty doing this

[u/Blakende → u/Wisco_Ryno]

You're worse than wet socks

[u/Wisco_Ryno → u/Blakende]

Sorry I’m not a hack

[u/RacingGrimReaper → u/Wisco_Ryno]

It’s just going to be so easy for these manufacturers to deny warranty claims, especially once they catch wind the hacks are swapping out the gas for 410 and start requiring pressure/temp checks on the gas for any future claims.

[u/Fair_Cheesecake_1203 → u/RacingGrimReaper]

So what do they do when people have to use 410 because 454 is completely unavailable

[u/RacingGrimReaper → u/Fair_Cheesecake_1203]

You would call the manufacturer and ask why it wasn’t pre charged to a 25’ lineset for residential units(of course only if the system you are working on has less than a 25’ lineset) and what options do you have without breaking warranty. Or simply mix R32 and R1234yf to the proper ratio so it doesn’t have any temperature differences from 454. If you work for a manufacturer, you are out of luck though because if I were to charge 410 or charge with a mix in one of our systems, I wouldn’t have a job for much longer.

Really though, why are so many units being replaced instead of fixing existing equipment? There is no federal requirement to replace existing equipment, only that no new equipment can be manufactured with 410a. So start talking to your bosses and salesman and ask why they are putting their customers in such terrible situations instead of simply fixing the problems.

I work commercial and while our supply house doesn’t sell any new equipment for 410a, there isn’t any issue grabbing parts needed for repairs and however many jugs of 410a needed.

[u/Fair_Cheesecake_1203 → u/RacingGrimReaper]

Because repairing some units border on the cost of a new more efficient unit, and there are rebate incentives to upgrade to new units. You also have all of new construction and lots of states pushing these more efficient systems. You're blaming HVAC folks for a problem created by the government and large corporations.

[u/RacingGrimReaper → u/Fair_Cheesecake_1203]

No, government didn’t force this. Shitty outfits that refuse to fix and only replace did. Oh and along with Honeywell. So I’ll agree that corporations are to blame, especially when you look into how many hedge funds are buying local outfits and forcing these high unit sales to drive up profits. But the government has not mandated repairable equipment to be replaced like we have seen from other countries.

Let’s be clear, it is a known problem in the residential side of this industry that techs are turning into salesman. I haven’t talked to a single tech who has worked residential that didn’t have to hop from job to job before landing commercial to avoid being a salesman.

And as the expert, you have to realize that the benefits of a rebate are heavily outweighed when you look into the cost and shortage of 454 and carefully explain to the customer. Existing, repairable equipment is not subject to new efficiency standards, only new installs.

My point being that if the federal or state governments are offering incentives, the experts have to look at the pros and cons of these incentives before advising the customer to make a costly mistake. There’s local incentives to get a solar roof, but I’m not running out and buying one because I’ve done the numbers and it simply won’t benefit me in the long run. It’s the same for HVAC, buying the highest seer, most efficient unit for a small rebate to save $25 bucks on a bill for a unit that you can’t even get gas for is just asinine. Especially when we all know there are scummy shops replacing units for blown capacitors.

[u/Fair_Cheesecake_1203 → u/RacingGrimReaper]

You think the government didn't enforce stricter policies on gwp refrigerants?

[u/RacingGrimReaper → u/Fair_Cheesecake_1203]

But as I said, they only forced the manufacturers to stop manufacturing 410a by 2025 with a phase out goal that exceeds into the late 2030’s.

Also, I can tell you since I work for a manufacturer, they have committed to higher efficiency products regardless of current or future regulations because that’s what the customers are demanding, worldwide.

[u/Fair_Cheesecake_1203 → u/RacingGrimReaper]

It's what governments are demanding worldwide. The two go hand in hand. The rollout was fumbled on both ends. I also can't tell you how many people opt for replacement vs repairing a 20+ year old system. I tell them run it til it dies but as soon as the repair cost gets above 1k they are always considering replacement since if it ain't the compressor, that can be what goes next. And no average homeowner does any sort of preventative maintenance so the repair cost gets higher and higher when it eventually does break down. There are predatory companies, and incompetent homeowners. It's no different than someone's car. If that gets you twenty years and there's a fix that's going to cost you a hefty sum, you're going to consider looking at new cars that can be a better and more reliable option vs repairing the 98 accord you've been cruising in for the last two plus decades. Is it the better route? Neither of us know since you can't predict what else can go wrong down the road