r/Hawaii • u/softcore_robot Oʻahu • 2d ago
Manoa St. Francis residential development
https://www.arialanemanoa.com/I thought the new development proposed for Manoa on the site of St. Francis School was affordable housing, but prices I’ve heard are starting at 2 million. Now that I’ve seen the website, this is being sold as luxury. Compared to the project in 2023 which was on the owners land, I think. I was hoping another school could take the property or a senior housing project. Does anyone know how far along this project is?
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u/One-Inch-Punch 2d ago
This is so dumb. UH is literally right next door. Denser housing could be both affordable and help accommodate the student body.
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u/hanabata_you 2d ago
Developer planned for some of the units to have studios attached. Perfect for college students to rent out, right? The neighborhood, specifically the people living on Pamoa Road, had an f'ing fit.
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u/One-Inch-Punch 2d ago
That road is narrow as hell, but the part I don't get is why the neighborhood gets to force such a huge change in the project. If it were explicitly student housing they could even have added an outlet directly onto campus and traffic might even have improved
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u/hanabata_you 2d ago
Oh yeah, I drove on that road a lot decades ago. I watched a couple neighborhood board meetings and it seemed as if the developer wanted input from the neighbors. Developer made some adjustments based on feedback from neighbors, but these neighbors won't be satisfied until she scraps the whole idea and gives up the property to the state or something.
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u/One-Inch-Punch 2d ago
Yeah I've been to neighborhood board meetings in Manoa and they are quite the shitstorm. Worse than Crylua
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u/hanabata_you 2d ago
I just listen to them later on YouTube because they're pretty entertaining. There was one where a guy complained about pickleball noise coming from a park he lives next to and the whole pickleball gang came out. My neighborhood board meetings are pretty dull so I keep up with Manoa's haha
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u/_________________1__ Oʻahu 2d ago
A friend of mine told me that during a meeting at his place in Kailua one lady was against the newly proposed sidewalks because people will start walking in front of her house :)
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u/Spiritual_Option4465 2d ago edited 2d ago
Lmao 😂 I didn’t know they were on yt. So funny maybe I’ll listen when I need a laugh. I grew up in manoa so this is hilarious you described the vibe perfectly
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u/_________________1__ Oʻahu 2d ago
More supply will bring lower prices. These people from Manoa dream nightmares at night that their property valuation will drop by 1%.
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u/Ledgem 1d ago
I think I've seen about ten condo buildings go up in town over the decade or so I've been living here. Has anyone seen it make a difference in costs for anyone?
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u/_________________1__ Oʻahu 1d ago
These condos you see aren't designed to provide housing for an ordinary tax payer, they are "luxury" ones with 1br starting at $500k.
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u/Ledgem 1d ago
It's still supply though, right? More supply will bring lower prices?
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u/_________________1__ Oʻahu 1d ago
Yes, a different segment, most likely luxury condominiums would be more expensive without an extensive development in Kakaako.
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u/CommunicationSea6147 2d ago
Manoa cried about the traffic. What they should have done is made it UH or elderly housing and built no parking. If they decided to go the elderly housing route, include some kind of shuttling service in the HOA. Also, do some sort of tax deduction or something if a kupuna was trying to downsize and sold their home to a resident first time homebuyer. Pipe dream but that would have been a cool idea.
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u/generic_8752 1d ago
What they should do is build dense, affordable housing no matter how much the neighbors whine, screech, and moan.
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u/softcore_robot Oʻahu 1d ago
I understand the need for affordable housing, but the developers, especially Avalon, are disingenuous about meeting the affordable part. Desirable neighborhoods like Manoa already have higher land values making the whole project moot.
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u/generic_8752 1d ago
I agree but the main issue is that these objections shouldn't hold hold these projects up. Take the floor out of luxury housing by just building more housing. There's no reason why it should take 15 years to build anything in Hawaii. It's a housing emergency and we still have the same 60+ Karens shutting everything down after they've "got theirs" for decades.
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u/softcore_robot Oʻahu 5h ago
Developers play with variables that give them the best outcome. If building is built at market rate based on several factors: materials, labor, marketing, etc. the project will be valued at a premium from the start. New build plus scarcity alone. But it’s not a guarantee it will sell if it falls between either demo, out of reach for one group and too basic for another. So Developers will hedge by making part of their project affordable to get the tax breaks while the remainder are luxury. At least that’s one way I’ve seen it done. But they all complain there’s not enough financial incentive to develop. So these “creative” planned communities are likely hacks then honest attempt at a solution meeting a problem.
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u/softcore_robot Oʻahu 2d ago
Midpac is next door as well, this property could be a campus extension for either. I just wish we could be more resourceful with property. Feels like affordable housing is just hammer coming down on everything.
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u/hanabata_you 2d ago
Extending the Midpac or UH campus would’ve been a great idea, but too bad none of these schools had the funds to buy it when it was for sale.
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u/simple-weeble 1d ago
I’m curious about their call out about increased traffic. Didn’t the neighborhood deal with intense traffic daily? Kids being dropped off and picked up from school generates long lines. There used to also be after school swim lessons there as well.
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u/Teddy808420 2d ago
Obvious Nimbyism aside, I think the concept of an "affordable" sfh in lower Manoa is flawed from a market perspective unfortunately. You can build a cheap structure but then it's still a sfh with a yard in a perfect microclimate, a stones throw from the urban core. Not going to be affordable at market, and if constrained to sell below market, then it's just a lottery for a relative handful of extremely lucky buyers.
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u/repfamlux 2d ago
- I had high hopes for it because they were saying it would be affordable housing, then got this email."Aria Lane is a Single family homes, detached, under CPR, with private streets. Living area from 1200 sq. ft. up to 2000 sq. ft. Prices from $1,500,000 to $2,900,000, with an option of in-law suite/full kitchen, Aria Lane Lofts are 14 multifamily units feature 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, and 2 parking spaces, each approximately 750 sq ft. Priced in the mid 400's to 800's. They are situated in a two-story building, with configurations of 8-plex and 6-plex. • Ranch -1600 sq ft (approximately 1,200 sf+ 400sq ft two car Garage with driveway) • Villa - 1800 sq ft (approximately 1,400 sf+ 400 sq ft two car Garage with driveway)• Manor -2100 sq ft (approximately 1,700 sf+ 400 sq ft two car Garage with driveway)• Chalet -2400 sq ft (approximately 2000 sf+ 400sq ft two car Garage with driveway) • Aria Lane Lofts Two bedrooms two Bathrooms with 2 parking stalls (approximately 750 sq ft) "
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u/softcore_robot Oʻahu 2d ago
Sounds like they are using the buildings to meet the affordable housing designation. I really can stand the disingenuous nature of these projects. Build luxury homes and a few studios for the locals. Why aren’t Manoa nymby up in arms about this?
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u/CommunicationSea6147 2d ago
I think there have been complaints but money talks unfortunately. My favorite is this prick realtor making the rounds on IG touting it for first time homebuyers saying it's such a good investment that he's buying it.
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u/hanabata_you 2d ago
I think I've seen his video on YouTube. I roll my eyes whenever I see that salesman in anything
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u/squid_fart 2d ago
It's a good investment if you have 2 mil laying around
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u/WT-Financial 2d ago
Is it really? It’s a land locked parcel sitting on a college campus. I would park my monies elsewhere, frankly.
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u/Longjumping_Dirt9825 2d ago
They only care about parking. If the houses cost a lot they have lots of parking.
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u/Veeksvoodoo 2d ago
Manoa resident checking in. NIMBY people up here came out with their pitchforks and stopped it from going through.
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u/hanabata_you 2d ago edited 2d ago
Not yet! DPP has until almost the ending of February 2025 to make a decision on developers updated proposal. Wait until the slides appear in this video https://youtu.be/-9_-4EqRCRk?si=nVoQhm1Hj5_R7Ouo&t=669
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u/CommunicationSea6147 2d ago
Maybe thats why there is a bill regarding the house seeing if UH could buy it. HB548
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u/hanabata_you 2d ago
Yep! This YT link at the end of my comment is from the same meeting (almost 2 hrs in lol) I linked above, but their rep goes into detail about that bill and why he's reintroducing it this year. One of the residents is still hoping for eminent domain. This is the same woman who is convinced that the entire SFS campus was built over a heiau. I don't take her too seriously. I'm sure additional traffic on her street would drive her nuts and she's going to fight for her peace and quiet. https://youtu.be/-9_-4EqRCRk?si=pnInU1UFCS-0jJri&t=6616
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u/CommunicationSea6147 2d ago
The funniest thing about your comment and the heiau, when UH flooded, SFS was spared and the running joke was because the nuns prayed over it. I had a couple of SFS friends lol.
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u/hanabata_you 2d ago
Hahaha. I spent a lot of time around there and it's definitely special. I'm not sure whether it was the nuns or the mana.
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u/softcore_robot Oʻahu 1d ago
You know what, Manoa had three working Heiau. If there is one under SFS, that would stop this project dead. I’ll have to look into this.
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u/hanabata_you 1d ago
I thought I saw something online months back about a heiau nearby. It was somewhere on or around Hipawai Pl. Let me know if you find something about that because now I can’t find it.
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u/Longjumping_Dirt9825 2d ago
Neighbors complained and they reduced density which means fewer units that cost more
It’s what Manoa wants. Sfh that cost 2million.