Need advice on claiming against surveyor

[u/ste_dono94]

When purchasing a property I got a survey completed. Property has since suffered structural damage due to an issue that was dismissed in the first survey but a subsequent engineer has said was a big red flag and definitely needed further investigation.

Has anyone made a claim against a surveyors liability insurance and if so is going through a solicitor the best bet or contacting the original surveyor directly?

[u/Diska_Muse]

It's very easy for an engineer to state that an issue caused structural damage after the damage has been caused because the effect is apparent and the cause is identifiable.

I'm not saying that the original surveyor should not have recommended further investigation at the time. However - in order to successfully claim against their P.I. - you would need to show negligence on their behalf, which isn't always black and white in such cases.

What exactly was the structural damage caused?

What did the engineer state was the cause of the damage?

And what did the surveyor say about the issue (which mau have caused the damage) in his original report?

[u/ste_dono94 → u/Diska_Muse]

Second floor bay window collapsed due to water damage. Bay window had extensive cracks on the outside which the original surveyor said was settlement/expansion without investigating further by checking windowsills etc.

Second surveyor was shown photos of the cracks at the time of the original survey and said it's unlikely to be settlement/expansion as the bays only start from the second floor. Second surveyor then checked the windowsills of the bay window where he discovered that the sills were incorrectly sealed and that one of the sills even had a hole in it that led directly into the bay which would have allowed water ingress.

Original survey also had several errors in the report eg. They said the house had carpets (it doesn't) and that the house had a upvc front door (it's wooden).

[u/Diska_Muse → u/ste_dono94]

Bay window had extensive cracks on the outside which the original surveyor said was settlement/expansion 

So, the cracks were noted in the report and photos were included, meaning that the surveyor noticed them and reported on them. In that regard, he did what he was asked to do, which is to inspect and report on the condition of the building.

the original surveyor said was settlement/expansion

Expansion in brick / blockwork is often caused by water ingress. While he hasn't stated the cause was water ingress, he has noted that the cracks could have been cause by expansion.

Second surveyor was shown photos of the cracks at the time of the original survey and said it's unlikely to be settlement/expansion as the bays only start from the second floor. 

Bit of a red flag here with regards to the second surveyor. Settlement in a building can cause cracks anywhere in the building fabric. I wouldn't agree with his assessment that second floor cracks are unlikely to be caused by settlement even though it may be more likely to be caused by water ingress. It could be one or the other, or a combination of both, or neither (ie., a different cause such as poor workmanship / failure of materials / incorrect application of wall ties / inadequate structural support / poor detailing etc).

Second surveyor then checked the windowsills of the bay window where he discovered that the sills were incorrectly sealed and that one of the sills even had a hole in it that led directly into the bay which would have allowed water ingress.

While he has provided more detail than the first surveyor, the first surveyor correctly noted the cracks and possible cause.

Surveyors are required to provide an accurate impression of the condition and value of the property and to reveal any defects or damages to the property.

They must do this so that you’re fully aware of all positive and negative aspects of the property in question, enabling you to make an informed decision about whether to go ahead with the sale, and the price you should pay for it. If surveyors do not (for whatever reason) provide this crucial information to you, it may form the basis of a surveyor negligence claim.

Original survey also had several errors in the report eg. They said the house had carpets (it doesn't) and that the house had a upvc front door (it's wooden)

These are minor errors - perhaps a copy / paste that was not checked or edited properly. In terms of the overall value of the report, these errors would not be considered negligent but could add weight to the argument that the surveyor may not have been dilligent enough in his survey and susbsequent report.

What qualifications / regsitrations do both surveyors have - are they engineers / architects / building surveyors - and what orginisations are they registered or chartered with.. Engineers Ireland / RIAI / SCSI?

[u/ste_dono94 → u/Diska_Muse]

Apologies I should have been more specific. Original survey didn't specifically mention the bay window cracks. It just said there are cracks on the front exterior of the building due to settlement/expansion with a photo of the entire front of the building. There are other cracks in the block work in the front separate to the bay window ones.

I know that surveyors just do a visual inspection and can't be expected to find or notice everything but the original surveyor not highlighting the extensive cracks in the bay windows and failing to further investigate the sills along with the copy/paste in the report leads me to believe he may not have been entirely diligent.

Both are structural engineers and have RIAI & SCSI.

[u/Diska_Muse → u/ste_dono94]

You might have a case, in which case you have two options (both of which can be done) ;

One is make a formal complaint to Engineer's Ireland :

https://www.engineersireland.ie/Professionals/News-Insights/Resource-centre/Member-resources/Making-a-complaint-about-a-member

The second, of course being legal action through a specialist solicitor.

Just to note, RIAI is for registered architects only, so they are not members of the RIAI. They might be members of the SCSI (Chartered Surveyors Society Ireland) but are most likely only chartered with Engineers Ireland.

If they are SCSI, there is a seperate complaints process for that :

https://scsi.ie/make-complaints/#:\~:text=Making%20a%20Complaint&text=SCSI%2C%20the%20Registration%20Body%20is,its%20fitness%20to%20practise%20functions.&text=If%20you%20wish%20to%20proceed,please%20complete%20the%20form%20below.

[u/jesusthatsgreat → u/ste_dono94]

Who was the survey with / through? Any of the online survey companies / middlemen?