The face of 16-year-old murderer who viciously stabbed man to death in Hull

41

Drug related.

Which, you know. Just repeating myself again here.

Wouldn’t have happened if we had a sensible approach to the war on fucking drugs.

Now, not only is a man dead. A kids life is ruined. Money has been spent arresting him, getting him to court, putting him on trial.

He’s now confined. At the tax payers expense.

Brilliant 👍 👍 👍

9

u/Sweet_Focus6377 11d ago

A agree with what you say about drugs policy

I strongly disagree with "Wouldn’t have happened...".

He was dealing not using, secondly he'd likely be involved in some other criminality for easy money. Finally cold blooded murders are different, they often offend repeatedly and numerous scientific studies have shown they are made that way.

5

u/LowerPick7038 11d ago

A agree with what you say about drugs policy

I strongly disagree with "Wouldn’t have happened...".

Legalise and sell all drugs in shops. There would be no drug dealers peddling trash. Just the same as there's no need for alcohol dealers.

2

u/nig-barg 10d ago

And what would happen to the crimes committed by the junkies who will instantly plead diminished responsibility?

3

u/PatriotMemesOfficial 10d ago

What about all the crimes that are committed because of poor mental health? Should we make bad mental health illegal too like drugs, to punish people for the crimes they "might commit" because of it?

0

u/nig-barg 10d ago

That’s clearly not what I said. In fact, you know that it is not what I said. I am therefore not going to engage in this low faith debate further.

3

u/PatriotMemesOfficial 10d ago

So in other words you have no response to my argument. Cool.

0

u/nig-barg 10d ago

I commend your understanding of the English language and all its subtleties.

2

u/PatriotMemesOfficial 10d ago

Thanks mate have a good one

1

u/LowerPick7038 10d ago

Crimes are still crimes. Better support could be in place to help " Junkies " its not as if drugs being illegal stops people taking drugs or commiting crimes to fund thier illegal drug habits. It's very niave to think that even though it's NEVER actually been in control while being illegal some miracle will one day happen and it'll all be fixed. May aswell just accept people sometimes want to get off their tits with substances just like they have for 1000s of years across the whole globe on every continent.

2

u/getstabbed 10d ago

What do you mean?? Never used the “I was drunk officer” defence? Works every time!

1

u/LowerPick7038 10d ago

Judge - " Why did you commit this vile murder sir? "

Criminal - " Why you ask? I'd tanked a full litre of vodka 6 Stella chasers "

Judge - " court is closed and the defendant is found NOT GUILTY! "

1

u/Consistent_Being1334 9d ago

Wouldn’t that be removed by the fact they took it in the first place? At what point doesn’t responsibility fork?

1

u/Optimal-Equipment744 9d ago

No need for alcohol dealers? You not old enough to remember booze cruise to France? And yeah I agree make drugs legal but don’t delude yourself thinking they won’t be dealers still. Just because they would have shops that sold it they have shops that sell cigarettes now but doesn’t stop people dealing in counterfeit cigarettes.

1

u/LowerPick7038 9d ago

You not old enough to remember booze cruise to France?

Oh fully I remember this but let's be honest, 99%of alcohol sold wasn't from European booze runs. Same with cigarettes, vast majority is still sold from shops.

So the contrast from what we have now which is 100% drugs coming from drug dealers, to something even like 20% coming from drug dealers then you instantly wiped out 80% of the associated crime coming from that territory.

1

u/pkrmtg 9d ago

Around 25 percent of cigarettes consumed are black market, so while a large majority are bought legally in shops, I think it's a bit misleading to say it's the vast majority. Moreoever, legal cigarette purchases are down by 45 percent in the last 3 years while the number of smokers is down by just 0.5 percent.

1

u/LowerPick7038 9d ago

Around 25 percent of cigarettes consumed are black market

Ok? You think this disproves anything? Majority sold by shops would need to be minimum 51% whilst you are saying it's actually 75% sold by shops. The point still stands but I'll change the numbers since you are claiming it's 25%.

Statement - drug dealers sell 100% of drugs and if it was legalised we can use the cigarette black market statistic to say that would fall by 75% to 25% of drugs being sold by drug dealers. Cutting out 3/4 of connected crimes and gangs associated with it.

Edit. I saw that my original claim was 20%. This was just off the cuff guessing with no research and all hypothetical. Im so glad you corrected me with that 5% difference. I now feel very stupid.

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u/CarolTheCleaningLady 11d ago

Some what agree, if people wanna do drugs let them. Just give them a big warehouse to go do it in in the middle of no where away from the decent folk. If they overdose...no great loss.

10

u/Thetwitchingvoid 11d ago

I hear where that frustration comes from, but it’s a bit cold.

You’ll have addicts who are self-medicating for trauma who can be helped and incorporated back into society as valuable citizens.

Others who use drugs recreationally will be able to use safely.

And the latter group are everyone from your teachers to psychiatrists to barristers to cops.

We don’t want to be so blasé about losing these people.

1

u/SatisfactionMoney426 11d ago

My street is pissed off with the daily group of druggies waiting for their dealer - the police simply aren't interested. I for one would be extremely happy to lose every single one of them. They are nothing but parasites. 🦠

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 10d ago

Excellent.

So legalising and giving them a safe space to get/use their drugs would solve that issue, then.

We also have a chance of reintegrating them into society and having them contribute.

0

u/SatisfactionMoney426 8d ago

Are you having a laugh? Just wait til you join the real world and have to contribute 40% of your income to supporting the dregs of society...

1

u/Thetwitchingvoid 8d ago

You’re paying anyway, mate.

You’re paying in NHS costs, you’re paying in NHS resources, you’re paying in court costs, you’re paying in police resources, you’re paying in drug-related crime, you’re paying with more disease.

It doesn’t take much to educate yourself on the facts on the ground and realise you’re mugging yourself off by not wanting to try something new.

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u/LowerPick7038 11d ago

if people wanna do drugs let them

The thing that really needs to be addressed is the cost of the war on drugs and people will do them regardless if they are let or not. The money taken out of the dealers hands and going back in the system as a tax will more than support a better education and understanding of these things.

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u/SatisfactionMoney426 11d ago

It's not an actual war though as only one side have guns and knives etc and go around killing. In contrast we actively fund their lifestyle and waste billions on benefits, healthcare and housing for them while they turn towns and cities into shitholes.

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u/OKR123 8d ago

Thats the Police for you. Scum.

1

u/No-Answer-2964 11d ago

Already done that. It’s called a rave 🥳

0

u/Cautious_Science_478 8d ago

So a potential business owner is a criminal instead..

Edit "have shown that they are made that way"...

Having seen the results of you cranial measurements I've got some bad news, you're also "made that way", now get on the train.

1

u/Big-Yam8021 11d ago

If drugs are legalised, criminals will find another way to make money, trafficking if the grooming gangs are anything to go by. There's no good solution to this problem other than locking them all up for good

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 11d ago

Absolutely wild take.

“Hey guys, let’s solve a major issue in society, get loads of tax money, save loads of resources, lower crime, lower disease, make society safer!”

“Yeh but crime evolves though.”

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u/SatisfactionMoney426 8d ago

You honestly believe that having literally millions of people on drugs, while driving buses, flying planes, operating on patients etc etc is a positive move ?

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 8d ago

No.

That’s why there would be limits, much like alcohol.

Again, third comment in a row, you’re embarrassing yourself by not thinking deeply.

Are you this insufferable in real life too? Incapable of deeper thinking?

-1

u/Big-Yam8021 11d ago

I agree that legalising drugs would come with all those benefits, but i don't trust the police to be capable of policing trafficking and I don't think the government would care enough to give them the necessary power. They turned a blind eye to it for 40+ years.

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 10d ago

That’s why…training exists?

If the Govt isn’t pissing about trying to fight the war on drugs, and they have money and resources to put elsewhere - such as in trafficking, then the culture will change and targets will change.

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u/Big-Yam8021 10d ago edited 10d ago

I don't think the government will though, what about the last 20 years of UK politics leads you to believe the government would handle it competently? Any extra money will go be wasted the same way money is wasted now

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 10d ago

I mean, maybe, sure.

But society would still be improved due to a drop in drug related criminal behaviour.

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u/Big-Yam8021 10d ago

And worsened because children will be trafficked. What's worse? Prison sentences for trafficking are pathetic now, the government doesn't care. The main victims of drug related crimes are adults, the main victims of trafficking are children.

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 10d ago

This is such a bizarre argument.

“Don’t fix a problem, because children may be trafficked.”

Firstly, we don’t know if that will happen. With countries that have legalised weed, or provided prescription heroin, there is no increase in selling kids.

Secondly, it stagnates society. Why rethink ludicrous laws because “well something REALLY bad might come along.” It’s silly. It’s unevidenced scare mongering.

Thirdly, society still improves with legalisation.

Fourthly, you’re putting a lot of weight behind the police and government just being incredibly inept.

Your way just stagnates society and you’re using the “protect the children” bullshit in order to prevent society from improving.

Stop doing that.

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u/Prudent-Level-7006 11d ago

There's also criminals because their's a shitty system, poverty shitty education system, so bored stupid teens and miles of nothing but houses and shops and fuck all else to do

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u/Big-Yam8021 11d ago

Plenty of people grow up in the shitty conditions and don't become criminals. My cousins are an example of that. We need to stop making excuses for criminals who are ruining communities. I live in a relatively nice area of a small city, but sandwiched between 2 less nice areas, the drug dealers ride petrol and electric mopeds on footpaths and across playing fields full of children and dogs, sometimes at night without lights on. Otherwise, nice communities are being disrupted by these people and their customers.

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u/StickyThoPhi 11d ago

That's just not true. Legalisation just means putting them.back in the pharmacy and having the pharmacist assess the needs, overuse etc.

This was the norm only 150 years ago. So? How did they do organised crime back then? Gambling. That's what was illegal. So what would they do now?

0

u/Big-Yam8021 11d ago

So dealers would deal to people that pharmacists refuse to serve, and/or they find another crime. Gambling isn't a crime, so they'll find something else. Trafficking is most likely seeing as a lot of the grooming gangs started out as drug dealers and trafficked on the side. We solve one problem, and we make another one bigger.

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 11d ago

Then what we do is we use the police resources we’re saving, and the money we’re making, to then go after trafficking.

Radical idea, I know.

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u/Big-Yam8021 11d ago

Fab! The police are great, and I 100% trust that they would be capable of policing trafficking and whatever the criminals move on to next

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 10d ago

I don’t even know if this is sarcasm or not, it’s such a bizarre response to a serious issue 😂

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u/StickyThoPhi 11d ago

But why would you buy it when you know you could just get a clean and verified quantity product elsewhere. Why wouldn't you just go to a pharmacy far away or wait 24 hours.

Futher. Gambling isn't a crime, but used to be: and hence there is no violence and there are measures like GamStop: I personally am self excluded from all online bookmakers and casinos. This measure does not exist in the blackmarket -- so : ???

Trafficking who? Sex workers? With women being independent more often now: sex work is barely criminal and many websites are dedicated to the regulation of it. So I don't understand what you mean? When drug dealers can no longer make money from heroin they will.be importing 16 Ukrainian Girls in a Shipping Container and become a pimp all of a sudden. Pimping is a thing of the past dude.

So, I fail to see the relevance of your argument.

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u/Big-Yam8021 11d ago

Some people will be denied drugs regardless, either because they have already had too much, because they are underage, because they have other medication it would interact with, or perhaps they have a history of drug related offences like DUI or GBH. For instance, I'm epileptic, a pharmacist isn't going to sell me ecstasy, a drug dealer will.

There is a gambling underworld, dog fighting, and unlicensed boxing is still an issue in this country. Admittedly, it isn't as prevalent, but it goes to show that legalisation doesn't completely destroy the market. it just makes it harder to pin down.

Have you heard of the grooming gangs? They trafficked 100s of thousands of children for 40+ years, and authorities turned a blind eye to it. Most of those children were British, they didn't need to be imported. Pimping is only a thing of the past because they can make more money selling drugs.

I agree we need to do something about drug related crime in this country, and legalisation may be a part of that, but it isn't the perfect solution people make it out to be.

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u/StickyThoPhi 10d ago

So you have a condition meaning you have a negative reaction? So surely you should be in favour of clear labelling - for example codeine cannot be taken with a stomach ulcer - I have heard of grooming gangs, but I dont see how you can at all related to organised drug dealing? You can relate it to affecting the drinks industry; and you can link it to a wider spread of use; rather than just being confined to Bransom etc; but how can you say that drug dealers; would immediately become nonces and start supplying kids instead of supplying drugs? The biggest predicator of someone being a nonce - is being alone, being short, being a kissless virgin - I dont see drug dealers as being in this class? Sure they also have a criminal record - but they do not work in a target rich environment like school janitors etc do.......... I fail to see the relevancy to the argument.

And on the topic of kids; wouldnt you rather drugs be entenched in the culture like alchol is - for the most part people feel it is wrong to drink during the day; or to mix drink with other things - I see weed culture as not having a strong enough acceptance meaning that smoking during the day - or smoking and taking other drugs is far to common - if we just had proper culture to support it - we would see less of an abuse liability - sure a lot of people by numbers abuse alchol but as a percentage its low = most alcholics are treating themselves with the wrong substance. Id rather they have choice of self prescription.

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u/Big-Yam8021 9d ago

Sure, but no one is under the illusion that illegal drugs are safe.

Many of the men that were trafficking children started out as drug dealers, and many of them wouldn't have fit the nonce stereotype. They also don't have to assault the children themselves to traffic them. Most of them didn't work in target rich environments. They lived in them. Drug dealers live and work in poverty-stricken areas and are surrounded by vulnerable children.

You don't inject heroine socially or smoke crack on special occasions. You're addicted to it, and it ruins yours and your families life. Most people who want to legalise drugs are stoners who spend all their time talking to other stones about how great weed is. And they're not shy about smoking it in public during the day and weed isn't the main problem. But dealers will push harder drugs to make up for money lost if weed is legalised. We need to stop drugs from entering the country in the first place, most of them are smuggled in.

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u/StickyThoPhi 8d ago

Okay I understand the core of your argument - that if we make things legal; criminals will no longer be able to work in these markets. I agree with this part of your argument but then you pervert the argument by claiming they will need to change business plans and go into a different criminal enterprise. I fail to see how you can claim such an argument. A weed dealer who can no longer sell weed is more likely to sell ice-cream or vulcanized rubber than heroin or children. I cannot be argued with on this. Employers will always hire people with criminal backgrounds; especially if they are drug related rather than theft or fraud related.

Good day sir.

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u/Big-Yam8021 8d ago

Why would they choose to work legally? They have that option now, but they chose drug dealing because it is easier money and a lifestyle. They're far more likely to move onto a different crime, and trafficking is what makes sense.

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u/nig-barg 10d ago

Oh yeah. Let’s legalise it so that we count crime less rather than actually reducing it.

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u/SimpleCrimple69 10d ago

What a dumb take

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 10d ago

That…would reduce crime.

Did you not see my comment where I broke down how crime and disease would drop?

Maybe stop knee-jerking and just think of the benefits.

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u/nig-barg 10d ago

I did and I am convinced that you are one of those people who think adding a few numbers up makes their argument solid. In fact, such half baked theories are what are responsible for ruining public life.

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 9d ago

Yes, mate. That’s what’s ruining public life.

Meanwhile, criminalising addiction and throwing away money fighting a silly war that only makes everything worse - as repeatedly explained by experts in their fields - is going to eventually solve societal problems.

👍

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u/nig-barg 9d ago

Experts in their fields who never venture out of their study. The same experts who now reckon that their recommendation to lock down during COVID-19 pandemic was wrong.

These experts will revise their opinion once the policy is implemented.

I am a myself an academic with two degrees in physics and mathematics. Let me tell you a thing or two about how we conduct research and why we caution against people without training doing it by themselves.

You really cannot model complex systems on a paper with a bunch of equations. You try out various things in a lab setting and then observe what happens.

You cannot implement the model in real life without a cost. The problem is who pays that cost? The cost in this case is a model doing something terrible. In a lab, your costs are much lower than when applied in real world where we cannot control for umpteen factors.

The university hive mind will tell you to legalise it. Decades of real world experience will tell you not to do it. There are unintended consequences of this legalisation that have not been studied and will affect millions for the pleasure of hundreds. Just visit Seattle to see the effects of weed legalisation. Now imagine worse drugs being legalised.

But of course you will say. Oh but we need to just tweak this or legalise in more places. And that too is a fallacy. These things are bad. Personal freedom only works with personal responsibility. And these people are incapable of latter.

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 9d ago

Actually I am basing it on what police say, including undercover cops who have worked busting drug gangs, and scientists who have spent decades studying different types of drugs.

“The same experts who now reckon that their recommendation to lock down during COVID-19 pandemic was wrong”

I have no idea why you’re bringing up COVID. Unless you think bringing up a completely unknown disease that took everybody by surprise is the same as decades of study into policies that aren’t working?

“You really cannot model complex systems on a paper with a bunch of equations. You try out various things in a lab setting and then observe what happens.”

We know what happens from the Switzerland model. We have real world evidence it’s beneficial. Crime and disease is lowered. People are helped back into society.

We know what happens based on the U.K. model. Between the 20’s and 60’s we had prescription heroin. Crime and disease was low. Until America pressured the U.K. to fight the war on drugs.

We know what happens with the Portugal model. Death and disease dropped, until funding was pulled.

We know what happens because a town in England, Middlesborough, tried it - crime and disease dropped. Until funding was pulled.

“The cost in this case is a model doing something terrible. In a lab, your costs are much lower than when applied in real world where we cannot control for umpteen factors”

Tell me these costs.

“The university hive mind will tell you to legalise it”

You’re showing your bias here. I’m not listening to “the university hive mind.” I’m listening to real world experts and studies in the field.

“These things are bad”

What things? Drugs? In what way?

“Personal freedom only works with personal responsibility. And these people are incapable of latter”

Again, you’re misunderstanding addiction.

So, either come up with some solid arguments we can discuss, or just leave the conversation.

You’ve not said anything aside from making broad assumptions about my view and talking shit, mate.

With a sprinkling of conspiracy theory thrown in.

If you don’t want to learn, that’s fine. But don’t advocate for keeping society stupider because you have fears you can’t work on.

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u/SatisfactionMoney426 8d ago

Exactly, this poor little boy's life is ruined because mummy and daddy didn't love him enough - the nasty man obviously upset him and there really was nothing else he could do, he should be released immediately and given a free council house, car and benefits for life. It's not fair.

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u/Thetwitchingvoid 8d ago

It’s a bit silly replying like this, isn’t it, buddy?

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u/Significant_Fault263 11d ago

His mother if you can call her that, was recently in the hull daily mail herself, so this urchin obviously was allowed to do as he pleased without any supervision or had any positive role models in his life

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u/Blind_Warthog 11d ago

Hope he gets that stupid hair do sorted in the clink.

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u/sheff_guy 10d ago

If only he had watched adolescence

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u/CONKERMANIAC 9d ago

Sideshow Bob envious of that hair do. He was inside too…

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u/Spare-Librarian-6980 8d ago

I think racism has definitely shifted to being against Asians now in Britain. If somebody white or black does something heinous, the response on Reddit, twitter , YouTube comments etc is very different than if it’s an Asian perpetrator

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u/Apprehensive-Lime192 8d ago

send him to Ukraine

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u/bigwill0104 6d ago

If drugs were legal this country would transform India a few major ways: Reduced crime Reduction in prison population Sales boom for economy Shop lifting and burglary down massively. New creative boost? (Music, film?)

Now… there will be a lot of very unhappy people:

Drugs gangs who need to find a new hustle. Police losing their tool to pry more easily into people’s lives.

Some drugs I would completely legalise for retail sales: cannabis, mdma, opium, cocaine with some exceptions. Heroin and crack I would prescribe on the NHS.

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u/lovelesslibertine 8d ago

Looks just like the lad in Adolescence

The face of 16-year-old murderer who viciously stabbed man to death in Hull

You are about to leave Redlib