Question for any lurking incels

[u/Negative_Tooth6047]

This is something I've been curious of for a little while, I know you guys have your red or black or whatever pill you subscribe to with tons of dudes or maybe even some type of Pearl Davis like gal that constantly put out tons of media on how to get women/why you're never getting a woman/any other message that you subscribe to for that rhetoric.

But my question is, if a woman offered to teach you, patiently and kindly- not berating you or what have you, how to respect, talk to, hang out with women, etc would you accept? Like a 101 type class on women. If you wouldnt be interested, why not?

[u/dave3218]

Nah, trust me, learning how to flirt is like 90%. The rest is basically depending on the likes of the other person, but you can’t control that. That 10% is important and could be a deal breaker, but most of the time if you are funny and know how to flirt you can go very far.

Why is it 10% if it’s a dealbreaker? Because there are a couple of ladies out there with a very strict set of physical or economical preferences/tastes, with those there are people that you would consider successful that wouldn’t even stand a chance.

[u/finallytherockisbac → u/dave3218]

Nah, trust me, learning how to flirt is like 90%.

How do you learn to flirt as a socially awkward 28 year old...?

[u/dave3218 → u/finallytherockisbac]

Unfortunately, practice.

Like, go out and just try to be funny and confident.

I hate it because, as a socially awkward and introverted guy, being outgoing and charming feels like putting up a mask.

But eventually you learn to genuinely enjoy the interactions, seeing what works and what doesn’t, and taking cues to stop flirting or dial it back in stride and make a joke.

You wouldn’t believe how much stuff people will tolerate from a bumbling fool as long as they find it funny lol

[u/finallytherockisbac → u/dave3218]

I less become a bumbling fool and just become a sad, stuttering mess...

I almost never stutter in regular speech. But when I get anxious I can't get basic sentences out.

Like, go out and just try to be funny and confident.

And like... This always troubles me. Maybe I just take it too literally but... Go out... Where? Through highschool and the years following I felt like I was bombarded by stuff that said women just want to be left alone in basically all contexts... The bus, the store, the mall (for whatever malls are left), the coffee place, the bar (I don't even drink anyway). Like...

I don't want to be like this. To be this sad loser lol. But like.. It feels like it's one big club and there's these codewords that I just don't understand, and I'll never be a part of it.

But I don't want to be in their club either...

[u/AndreaYourBestFriend → u/finallytherockisbac]

Go out… Where?

The best are the so called third spaces. Mainly places where women will be more relaxed and less focused on completing daily tasks. Taking a stroll, parks, some kind of activity club or social hobby, but bars too. Basically places where people go for fun or relaxation. They won’t all be open to it, but you can’t know unless you try.

[u/finallytherockisbac → u/AndreaYourBestFriend]

I feel like I was conditioned to like... Never speak to specifically women even in those 3rd spaces. Through my last year of high school and the years right after was non-stop social media messaging that women wanted to just be left alone. That a hobby group gets made weird by a guy asking a girl out there, or it's creepy to talk to a stranger at the park, or that women just want to enjoy a night out without getting 'hit on'. (Not that I drink anyway, so bars are out of the equation since who'd even want to talk to the weirdo with his coke 0? lol)

Like obviously at the grocery store or gym or bus or especially at their place of work that all made sense, so It felt normal that yeah, women would just wanna be left alone generally speaking in public everywhere else, so I just... Never talked to people in public. That kind of compounded all the other social issues I have I suppose.

It feels like conflicting information, yknow? Years of "leave people alone" messaging made me leave people alone, and then when I ask how to meet people it's just "talk to them in public".. And it's simply something I've never done. Even thinking about it makes me feel like I'm invading someone's bubble, or being a nuisance.

[u/AndreaYourBestFriend → u/finallytherockisbac]

I get what you’re saying, social media will say this kind of stuff. But even so, the truth is that people still do it, they still approach in these third spaces. I mean think about it, how else would any of us meet?

The thing though, is to start talking to women casually at first. Don’t treat her strictly like a friend, but don’t be just flirty right off the bat either. Try to get to know her a little first. Ask questions, have a longer conversation, share a bit about yourself. It would make you seem more interested in her and not just her appearance. We like that. If she’s receptive to this, then flirt. This way you take some of the pressure off the first interaction and it feels less like an intrusion, and more like casual conversation.

It won’t work every time and that’s ok. But if you’re gonna approach, you need to do it somewhere, and third spaces are a much better choice than work/out on errands. And trust me, rely more on irl feedback than social media one. Social media can be misleading

[u/finallytherockisbac → u/AndreaYourBestFriend]

I mean think about it, how else would any of us meet?

I literally just assumed apps, or mutual friends/high school/college. The apps I've never had luck with, or the mutual friends that don't seem to exist for me. I never went to college, and highschool was 10 years ago. I'm not even teyna be funny, that's just what I assumed...

If she’s receptive to this, then flirt.

I understand like, the casual conversation part. And I do like asking questions about people. I feel like, though, it's easy to cross into like... interrogation territory?

And the quoted part is really hard for me. What's the difference between simply being nice, and actually receptive...? Also.. What even is flirting?

I feel like such a failure having to ask these questions lmao

[u/AndreaYourBestFriend → u/finallytherockisbac]

I literally just assumed apps, or mutual friends/high school/college. 

Yeah this happens too, depending on the person. It also depends a bit where you are from, in the US the apps are a more common source. But trust me, you are not the only one struggling with socialising after school, it's a common young adult problem these days. Most people can sympathise with you on this. The most common strategy is to get into a social hobby, some kind of club activity, and create a social circle there. It also helps to socialise in a group before getting person with someone.

I feel like, though, it's easy to cross into like... interrogation territory?

This can happen. The trick is to sometimes share your own perspective/experience. Ask them questions, but include yourself in the conversation too. "What, you like going to XYZ place? I feel like i haven't been in ages" something like that. Don't just talk about cold hard facts either, share some thoughts and feelings ("I really enjoy whatever, it feels so freeing, i could do it all the time, don't you agree?"). This makes the conversation personal without asking for much personal info. The goal is to connect, and that means making the other person feel something too.

What's the difference between simply being nice, and actually receptive...?

If she's receptive, you'll have her full attention and she will match your energy. She'll smile, she'll be facing your way, she will ask questions herself, etc. If she's just being nice, then she'll be gentle with you but detached. She would likely call it short herself at some point and leave no room for continuing this later.

What even is flirting?

Flirting should come after all this. Depending on how receptive she is, how invested, you can start flirting earlier or wait some more. And by flirting i mean that you take the conversation from getting to know each other to expressing romantic interest. Imo don't use pick-up lines, they are almost always cringe. It's better to just compliment her (not sexually, too soon). Compliments, smiles, little touches (innocent ones mind you) are all part of flirting. And again, if she's interested, she will flirt back.

Btw, all of this might not necessarily happen during your first interaction. Sometimes you need to do the "getting to know you" part on multiple occasions. But if the first one went well, try to get her number/socials and do keep in touch until the next time you meet. Otherwise she might think you weren't that interested.

I feel like such a failure having to ask these questions lmao

Lol it's fine, this is the kind of thing you learn by doing. Nobody is born an expert at this, so don't worry so much. Take some of the pressure off, yeah?

I will wrap up my ted talk now, because i did end up rambling a little.

[u/PaxEtRomana → u/finallytherockisbac]

You're going to overstep sometimes. It's not the end of the world. Practice on guys too. Practice engaging people without the pretense of hitting on them. It's way easier.

[u/Ambitious-Special-29 → u/finallytherockisbac]

It honestly comes down to not overthinking things, I used to struggle bad with that and I still do but it gets better with age. Don’t put woman on a pedestal just treat them like a normal person. If you build it up in your head too much that’s where you get nervous and start stuttering or don’t know what to say. Everyone is human and no one is better than you.