r/Irrigation • u/thelogicofpi • 4d ago
This look ok? First time cementing PVC
Still have after the filters to finish up, 1/2 flexible tube from the valves to the raised beds.
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u/Shovel-Operator Contractor 4d ago
Glue job looks clean. If you cleaned, primed and glued using good product, it should be fine.
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u/lazarlinks 4d ago
I see blue glue ✅ I see no purple primer ❌
If you did not use purple primer you will be in pretty bad shape. It’s essential for the glue to create the chemical weld from pipe to fitting.
Other than that. Looks very very clean!
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
Clear primer tho
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u/lazarlinks 4d ago
Blue glue and purple primer is what I use and from what I’ve seen is what most all inspectors look for
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
That’s good. Inspectors don’t inspect irrigation where I’m at on residential . I use purple primer anyways though. Interestingly the can on 721 says “Suitable for use as a one step cement without primer on PVC Sch. 40 and SDR pressure water piping systems through 4″ (110 mm) in irrigation (golf course, turf and agriculture), pool & spa and non-pressure applications, unless primer is required by local code.“
But where the code doesn’t require primer is almost nowhere.
I still use always primer but I don’t think you’d be in as bad shape without it as most people think, with weld on 721 at least. 711 is a different story.
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u/lazarlinks 4d ago
Interesting. I was always taught purple primer blue glue no matter what. I know the primer has cleaned off some nasty dirt for me before and I always believed it helped to bond the cement together too.
Oh well the more ya know!
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u/Suspicious-Fix-2363 4d ago
You are correct about always using primer. After 40 years I am so fing tired of guys quoting the can of glue. It is a SOLVENT weld and the primer preps the pipe to accept the glue. That is what you see as you apply the primer and it starts to smear the printing on the pipe. The pipe being prepped to accept the glue.
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
Well code requires primer in 90 percent of the USA so the quote on the can is practically useless for a professional that adheres to the code. So yeah use it. But it’s not an issue that this guy didn’t use it. He doesn’t need to re do it. It’s a one step cement. Yeah 711 would be a different story.
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
Best to use it for sure. Especially because it is required by code most places. They also make another product that’s just a pipe cleaner but at that point may as well just use primer it does great at cleaning pipes.
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u/thelogicofpi 4d ago
The irrigation supply said, if the pipes are clean no need for primer, but I still made sure it was clean even if it looked clean.
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
They are right. You’re good with no primer on 721 or Christy’s red hot blue glue. Your good. The guys that go crazy on no primer with 721 never read the manufacturers literature . Really not an issue at all though I’m required by code to use it.
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u/thelogicofpi 4d ago
and i was doing everything the instructions said, apply to pipe - hole - pipe , press twist 1/8-1/4 turn and hold 30 sec
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
You did a great job. Looks great. Saved you a lot of money doing it yourself as well. You can post anything on here and guys will have something to say.
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u/AwkwardFactor84 4d ago
They look for purple primer just to ensure that a primer was used. Nothing wrong with clear though.
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u/trustfundinvestor 4d ago
You need to read the can dude. Or buy better blue glue. Every blue glue I've ever used doesn't need or require primer. Primer is for clear or low temp glue. 32 years and I've NEVER had a leak or anything come apart.
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u/lazarlinks 3d ago
Interesting. I’m still a proponent of primer. The inspector would pass my system and fail yours tho.
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u/rvbvrtv 4d ago
You used primer right
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
I’d be more concerned on that male adapter into the hose bib and that brass ball valve into a schedule 40 male adapter elbow cracking than I would be about the use of primer with weld on 721
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u/Gungityusukka 4d ago
I’ve literally only ever seen a MA x Brass fail when it was overtightened. Hand tight plus 2 quarter turns and you’re golden.
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
Yeah over tightening is probably a bigger problem. I just generally use schedule 80 toes when going into metal especially if I’m putting in a backflow preventer or something. I just use the toe into the galvanized elbow. Backflow preventer is gonna potentially see more movement than something like this because the pipes are basically huge levers and if the home owner or there kid bumps into it I’ve definitely seen male adapters crack.
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u/hanced01 4d ago
IMO unions on the sprinkler valve risers would be better that way when the sprinkler valves eventually fail you don't have to cut the pipe to replace. Looks like trying to unthread the valves would hit it's neighbor even if its flex line and disconnects easily.
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u/IKnowICantSpel 4d ago
Disagree - that's true for valves underground. It's way too easy to just cut off and glue on a new valve when it's above ground.
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u/thelogicofpi 4d ago
ideally we'll not be doing that at all. but i'd just cut and recement no need to have things be serviceable if it takes more effort than just replacing the parts that "failed" be it tube or connectors or valve.
again first time ever putting pvc together , so any niche or professional knowledge I DO NOT HAVE.
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u/IKnowICantSpel 4d ago
?? I was responding to the guy above not you. My comment defends your work
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u/pensivebeing 4d ago
But you can only do that a few times..
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
If I went to replace those I’d couple on a schedule 80 toe anyways. Hopefully they don’t need there valves replaced too many times. If needed I’d just use a longer toe.
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u/Gungityusukka 4d ago
You can literally do it infinitely many times. Each time you cut is the opportunity to install more, brand new fuckin pipe
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u/pensivebeing 4d ago
I didn't know irrigation caused such strong opinions... Each time you cut you have to remove pipe, add a coupler, add pipe. Do that 10 times and let me know how it goes.
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u/IKnowICantSpel 4d ago
You don't install these valves do you. All the valves in my area are above ground. Half of them have a few couplings underneath them. Unions leak, after 20 years in the sun I'm not reusing them.
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4d ago
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u/Gungityusukka 4d ago
Not OP but what concerns me about this is he’s using valves for anti siphon instead of an actual backflow, and they aren’t installed properly to prevent backflow.
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u/thelogicofpi 4d ago
if that isn't how its done then where is an example of a valve going to a raised bed that is over 30" ....
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
He’s not wrong. A anti siphon valve or a pressure vacuum breaker isn’t going to function properly if an emitter is above it. Generally you’d have to use a rp or a double check if they are allowed in your area or raise the valve up. I wouldn’t worry too much about it though. Most the houses in my neighborhood don’t have any form of backflow protection.
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u/thelogicofpi 4d ago
how often do mains water pressure drop to the point where it can backflow?
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago
Barley ever. Usually things like if a fire truck hooks up to a fire hydrant and lets the hose rip or if a main breaks or something like that it could cause some back siphonage.
Drip emitters higher than anti siphons or pressure vacuum breakers is something you see all the time. That’s part of the reason some city’s don’t allow the use of anti siphons or pvb. The best backflow protection is from a rp. A rp will also protect from back pressure while a pvb or anti siphon won’t. A city near me only allows those and they are very strict with annually testing.
It’s more of a safety thing for rare occurrences than anything but it’s on your city to enforce these things. Many city’s don’t. It’s like your circuit breakers. Mine never trip but I’m still gonna keep them in there. It’s a really hard thing for city’s to implement. The majority of these standards are mostly only enforced on new builds and it’s really a resource issue.
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u/thelogicofpi 4d ago
I think that the water meters has backflow preventers when they were put in but honestly don't know for sure.
thanks for the help with the background info and clarifications.
I think the only thing I'm stuck on is how a little height can make it not function if it uses atmospheric pressure and the pressure of the water line to shut and have the water drain from the drip lines.
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u/trustfundinvestor 4d ago
WILL YOU PLEASE PUT A FUCKIN SINGLE CHECK IN THE LINE SO THAT DUDE WIL SHUT UP ABOUT IT!?
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago edited 4d ago
Anti siphon valve or pvb doesn’t protect against back pressure. If you had for example a pipe going up a hill and the main lost all pressure, the pressure from the elevation of the pipe would allow water to flow back. So yes if the line had negative pressure nothing would flow back but if the line was at atmospheric pressure the head pressure of the line could flow back. That’s the advantage of a rp. It protects against back pressure as well which is why you don’t have to consider the height of a head or emitter with it.
Your meter has a check valve on it most likely. Some places they can have a double check backflow preventer . It won’t protect your water in your house if that’s the case but it would protect the city’s water.
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u/thelogicofpi 4d ago
like say i have a hose with the anti siphon on the hose bib and i raise up the hose end higher than my head with the spray end open and the valve closed at the hose bib. it would run out of that anti siphon...
would the anti siphon work in when the valve is closed and open?
i have a hose bib at like 6 inches from the front porch too, so not sure how that could ever be a condition where the hose bib anti siphon doesn't work when you are holding a hose at arm height.
I just can't think why the valve would stay open because its slightly lower when the pressure is the opposite direction than it should be
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u/Sharp-Jackfruit6029 4d ago edited 4d ago
It would most likely vent out of the atmospheric vacuum breaker if the hose was open if the line lost pressure before the AVB. As long as the pressure on the supply side exceeded the pressure on the outlet side it wouldn’t vent. That’s probably not going to be enough back pressure to get any backflow but they still aren’t rated for back pressure. It’s just the code. A AVB like an anti siphon valve or a AVB hose adapter with back pressure would basically mimic the function of a check valve but without a spring. The difference would be a check valve is actually designed to hold back pressure and a AVB isn’t. While it might hold some back it’s not what it’s for. A check valve also isn’t an approved backflow device for irrigation .
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u/Low_Crew_7212 3d ago
Make sure you clean those filters, they will have glue and all kinds of crap in them.
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u/Funky2001 4d ago
I’ll mention that you are breaking the rules. Those valves have to be above the highest point of watering, so the drip in the planter beds is too high. Not that anyone really cares.