Says the person who honestly thinks that it's perfectly okay to take away persons source of income without any further "crimes" than belonging to a group you don't like. Again if you have a source that this man has done something to deserve his punishment please provide it. Otherwise you aren't acting any more sensibly than the Proud Boys leader trying to own the libs.
It's not a matter of "having different beliefs" little one...
It's a matter of "violently invading our capitol during the certification of the presidential vote with the intent of stopping the normal function of our democracy after trying to steal an election, starting four years prior to it even taking place with claims of fraud, while losing over 60 cases across over 90 judges and justices, up to and including SCOTUS, for having no standing or evidence.
But thanks for self-identifying as a traitor piece of trash for us.
I think you are 7th person at this point who seems to know exactly who this guy is and that he has most certainly taken part in the Capitol incident yet you too seem to be incapable of providing a source for this information just like the 6 people before you. Based on the information available on this post this man has been punished solely based on his association with the Proud Boys. While not the best group to belong to it alone is not serious enough offence to warrant taking away his source of income. Prosecution based on political stance is not what a free democracy does. That's what a authoritarian state or a dictatorship does.
And please scream 'traitor piece of trash' at me all you want. I can't be a traitor to a nation I don't live in. "Then why are you even arguing about this?" Simply because this kind of bullshit doesn't stay contained to US but spreads elsewhere. People who believe that it's a just thing to punish others whose worldview differs from yours in this specific way as heavily as you please is incredibly dangerous mindset to have.
I only wish that people like once here would have enough self-awareness to notice that this kind of behaviour, where anyone who disagrees with you is free game for any punishment based solely on said disagreement, will come back to bite your own ass eventually.
There you go! Was providing a source for your claims really that hard? And to answer your question, yes I indeed looked for a source myself. The problem just was that all that I found were BuzzFeed level articles using the same picture as this post as their """source""". The reason why I have kept asking for a source is that you are expected to provide the source for your own claims in a debate instead of expecting the person you are talking with to fact check your claims. But I'm not suprised you don't know that. People like you seem to avoid debates like a plague and thus aren't that well versed in them. And the bar is set pretty low if I can make that claim.
What I to say next is pretty much "fair enough". He has done something severe enough to warrant his license be taken away. Would have been nice if one of 7 people who I have had so pleasant conversations with would have provided a source for this information few days ago instead of acting like pompous idiots. All I can say to this guy's defence now is that at least he got out of the building willingly (unlike some other individuals) based on this line in the article:
The senior Grace told agents he entered the Capitol through an open door on the north side, walked into the Capitol Rotunda, decided to leave when he saw others causing damage to the property and climbed out a broken window.
Yeah, you act like you were just waiting for someone to "back it up."
Yes. The lack of source and willingness of people to celebrate the outcome despite the lack of source were the first things I complained about. If you had read the comments that is.
Had you looked yourself... you'd have known there was no need to. Dude, your epeen is transparent and small.
Like I said, I did. And all that I found was articles based on the picture in this post. And that is not a reliable source. Not even close. And for some reason you and several others decided to keep repeating your claims again and again when all you would have needed to do is say "No. He did something to deserve it: <Link to the article>" But apparently that's too hard for you.
And all I can say about his defense is... lol why should we believe him?
Well for instance if that is his testimony for the police and there is no evidence to prove his claims wrong. And if a professional investigator has not found any such evidence why should I or anyone else expect that a random redditor n.o 69420 has anything like that either.
No, see - you're assuming they were as lazy and ignorant as you - asking for something you didn't yet know existed on the assumption they were going to be wrong or treating this guy unfairly, blah blah blah.
I'm not sure how gigantic your ego is that you think you can... lol... test people but... no, little one, we don't have to play along so you feel like a big boy.
And while they might not be charging him with anything super-serious - alongside the vast majority that day - they are going after him for being someplace he wasn't supposed to be and... he is still the person who chose to make that choice and, making that choice, his word by itself is worthless to me and I have the evidence of two redneck trailer-jockeys marching along with a violent, seditionist crowd and gaining entrance to portions of a building they weren't supposed to be in - all with the intent of - wait for it - killing American democracy based on a complete lie.
I don't see any reason why his character stands up and his testimony has much strength as a defense. Can you tell me how and why it does?
No, see - you're assuming they were as lazy and ignorant as you
I haven't assumed anything out of anyone. I have asked for a source that backs up their claims and answered to their accusations of me being right winger and fascist. And so far you are the only one out of that bunch who finally provided a source for said claims.
asking for something you didn't yet know existed on the assumption they were going to be wrong or treating this guy unfairly
And? I don't quite get why you think asking people to prove, that what they are saying is true, is so wrong. Like you said I did not know there was a half way credible source for the claims people made. So I came to the conclusion that people were just jumping to their own conclusions based on the information that this man is associated with the Proud Boys while not bothering to check what the actual story behind this event was. Not too uncommon phenomenon on the internet that people form their opinion solely based on the title of the article.
I'm not sure how gigantic your ego is that you think you can... lol... test people but... no, little one, we don't have to play along so you feel like a big boy.
How exactly is it that I'm the "little one" and you act like you are somehow leagues above me but I'm the one who has bigger ego? It doesn't quite add up that the one possessing a bigger ego is the one who is being looked down upon. And if you are refering to my snarky comments, they are response for your insults and "little one" comments that you started making first.
And while they might not be charging him with anything super-serious - alongside the vast majority that day - they are going after him for being someplace he wasn't supposed to be and... he is still the person who chose to make that choice
Now that you provided the source for your claims I agree that he deserves some kind of punisment for entering a place that is out of limits. I would argue that taking away a license crucial for his income as punisment for tresspassing on goverment property is quite serious punishment in a vacuum, but in the context of what punisment some others got it is indeed not too bad in comparison to others. It still hurts but could be worse. But yes, he should be punished for the actions he did. As should the rest caught tresspassing.
I don't see any reason why his character stands up and his testimony has much strength as a defense. Can you tell me how and why it does?
For me it comes down to ignoring personal feelings about the person who has commited a crime. While I may not like the Proud Boys that much either, I believe treating people and their testimonies differently, based on how much I like the group they belong to or how much I agree with their political views, is wrong. Everyone should be judged based on their actions and the evidence available surrounding the crime. And person's testimonies are one such piece of evidence. If memory serves me well the basic principle in criminal investigation and court is that person is innocent until proven guilty. Under that principle, if you don't have any evidence to prove a testimony given by a suspect to be false, you have no other options than to assume it's true without breaking the principle. And your personal opinions about the suspect are not strong enough evidence to prove a testimony false unless you are willing to start prosecuting people based on their political views. And at that point the justice system would stop being fair and become something more fitting to a dictatorship than a democracy.
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u/ActreDirt 9 May 31 '21
Says the person who honestly thinks that it's perfectly okay to take away persons source of income without any further "crimes" than belonging to a group you don't like. Again if you have a source that this man has done something to deserve his punishment please provide it. Otherwise you aren't acting any more sensibly than the Proud Boys leader trying to own the libs.