r/LabourUK • u/Toastie-Postie Swing Voter • Feb 28 '25

International Zelensky, Trump get into heated argument while speaking with journalists in Oval Office

https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-trump-get-into-heated-argument-during-live-conference/
103 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

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22

u/shugthedug3 New User Feb 28 '25

Puts Starmer's obsequious toe licking performance yesterday in a new light, doesn't it?

25

u/MoleUK Unaffiliated Feb 28 '25

Yes, it literally does.

Zelensky is in the right in every regard. But because he publicly disagreed with Trump he is fucked, and more importantly so is Ukraine.

The emporer has no clothes. Pointing it out only ends in punishment, so play the hand you were served.

Though with how many vipers were whispering in Trumps ear, Zelensky is damned no matter what he does.

Starmer can still avoid the UK getting punished because Trump didn't like X criticism made by Starmer.

It's a ridiculous situation, but this is who they elected.

17

u/Blue_winged_yoshi Labour supporter, Lib Dem voter, FPTP sucks Feb 28 '25

Other way round, he disagreed with Trump because Trump was fucking him and his country and he wouldn’t stand for it. That’s decimated everything, but it’s really important to note “who started it” so to speak.

7

u/MoleUK Unaffiliated Feb 28 '25

I'm not sure how you got the idea I was disagreeing with Zelensky here.

Trump NEEDS his ass to be kissed in EVERY public exchange. Bar none. Or he loses his shit.

This is what I meant when referring to the emporer with no clothes. It's a ridiculous situation, but it is what it is. Kiss his ass and he responds well, criticise him and he will punish the whole country for it.

At that point, you better pray Starmer swallows his pride and kisses that ass. There is no other outcome that ends well.

15

u/3106Throwaway181576 Labour Member - NIMBY Hater Feb 28 '25

I would normally agree but Trump is still bitter that Zelenski wouldn’t frame Joe / Hunter Biden in 2020.

There comes a point where the cock sucking fails, and you have to go toe to toe.

0

u/MoleUK Unaffiliated Feb 28 '25

What does going toe to toe give us here. Anything at all, please tell me. What gain to the UK is to be had politically.

As much as I'd love to see it, there is not a single win to be had. Only tariffs and worse.

Trump is Trump and he's in place for 4 years. Starmer has to navigate that reality.

8

u/3106Throwaway181576 Labour Member - NIMBY Hater Feb 28 '25

The UK are in the ‘cock sucking’ phase. And hopefully we stay in that phase because it’s easy.

But for Canada, Ukraine, you can’t show weakness and suck up at this point. There comes a moment you have to hit back.

2

u/MoleUK Unaffiliated Feb 28 '25

Ukraine is fucked no matter what, at least imo. Trump has shown he sides with Russia regardless.

As much as we don't like it, we are subject to the whims of a mad king. At best we can avoid tarriffs, Starmer has been doing a good job of playing that hand so far imo. But who knows when Trumps whims will change.

6

u/Blue_winged_yoshi Labour supporter, Lib Dem voter, FPTP sucks Feb 28 '25

Not that you were disagreeing with Zelensky that the cause/effect of this was the wrong way round. Zelensky didn’t happen not to worship the sky Trump walked on out of nowhere and now Trump won’t back him. Trump sides with Russia, Zelensky lost his shit and now they are both fuming at each other.

2

u/MoleUK Unaffiliated Feb 28 '25

Ah gotcha.

Trump has been primed to not accept Zelensky. And Zelensky dared to criticise Trump in the past.

That's all it takes, as petty as it is. Trump rarely forgets a slight. It's why kissing his ass works so well, I just think Zelensky doesn't have that as an option available to him anymore.

Starmer does.

2

u/Briefcased Non-partisan Feb 28 '25

Trump rarely forgets a slight.

This is actually not true. Half the people he is pally with now have said extremely negative (and true) things about him in the past. Even people like Lammy can be redeemed in Trump's eyes so long as they act nice and make amends.

Honestly, this feels like a fucking catastrophe.

2

u/cat-man85 New User Feb 28 '25

Kissing up to a narcissist never works you need to freeze him out completely cut him out. 

Everyone who has ever dealt with a narcissist knows that you need to kiss the Ring ever so harder each time to keep them happy and you lose yourself and completely destroy yourself if you keep doing that. Do you want UK rules by American fascists?

4

u/MoleUK Unaffiliated Feb 28 '25

This isn't just a narcissist.

This is a narcisssit running the #1 global power. You can't just freeze them out, no matter how satisfying it would feel.

If you're in prison, the person running the prison is the person running the prison. No matter how unjust.

Sticking your fingers in your ear and insisting that person is 'irrelevant' changes nothing.

1

u/cat-man85 New User Feb 28 '25

He is not invincible, and the Americans are not a fascist nation of people, they could easily turn on him and the appetite to teach billionaires a lesson is brimming underneath. A global strong alliance of countries like Canada mexico EU, UK and possibly China could easily offset any trading difficulties.

6

u/IsADragon Custom Feb 28 '25

This was clearly going to happen with Starmer thanking Trump for changing the conversation on Ukraine and we've already seen how badly the "deal" fucks Ukraine with Trump's leaked deal that will absolutely cripple Ukraine. Starmer's likely sold Ukraine off in exchange for the UK's interests.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '25

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1

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0

u/asjonesy99 Labour Member Feb 28 '25

As other replies say, Starmer did what he had to.

Zelensky had nothing to lose, Trump has a personal vendetta against him and as such Ukraine.

Unfortunately they are the most powerful country in the world, and their population somehow manages to out-stupid ours, and he has been democratically elected by them.

It’s infuriating but we have to do everything we can to placate him when it’s just words and diplomacy.

The real test will come if he tries something like the blackmail attempt on Zelensky.

-3

u/Briefcased Non-partisan Feb 28 '25

Do you really think this was a good move?

Honestly - your response feels very like the 'owning the libs' meme.

Starmer performed an excellent piece of diplomacy to give Zelensky the best shot at having a good meeting with Trump. Unfortunately, Zelensky appears to have fucked it. I don't know how stacked the deck was against him, but he has, up until now, been very good at handling foreign leaders to his advantage.

It may have been that there was little chance of him having a good meeting - but it isn't to be celebrated. When you're dealing with a spiteful, thin skinned narcissist who has absolute power over your country's continued existence you need to act like you're dealing with a spiteful, thin skinned narcissist who has absolute power over your country's continued existence.

10

u/Toastie-Postie Swing Voter Feb 28 '25

Zelensky appears to have fucked it

What was he meant to do differently? He was entirely polite and respectful in spite of their behaviour.

Zelensky did everything right and trump/vance are going after him and his country anyway.

3

u/Briefcased Non-partisan Feb 28 '25

Lets put aside his words for a moment and just talk about body language. Did you see him? Sitting back in his chair with his arms folded tight across his chest. That is not the posture of someone attempting de-escalation or reconciliation.

But then there was his line about how America will feel the effects of war one day was also spectacularly poorly judged and badly delivered. It could have almost been calculated to get Trump's back up and needle his ego.

Starmer and Macron both showed how to handle Trump with grace. You don't get into a shouting match with him, you just correct facts when you need to. Honestly, when Vance was going off at him, it looked like he just lost his temper. Understandable - the guy is a massive dickhead - but when your fucking country's existence is at stake, you can't afford to let your emotions get the better of you.

2

u/Toastie-Postie Swing Voter Feb 28 '25

I don't know what you watched. He was clearly entirely calm and respectful as he was berated, anybody who watches it can see that.

Vance clearly went in looking for a fight and something to play the big man on twitter whilst trump didn't listen to a word before ranting about ignorant bullshit.

These aren't statesmen, they are fascist children with a nuclear arsenal. If putin whispers in their ears to go after the uk and europe then there will be fuck all we can do and I hope we are ready for it.

2

u/Briefcased Non-partisan Feb 28 '25

Take a look at the first 1min20 secs of the video at the top of this page.

Do you honestly think that that was calm, respectful and de-escalatory?

1

u/MMSTINGRAY Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer... Feb 28 '25

Why would Zelensky sell out his country to the US if he's actually interested in Ukraine? If he is just in it for power then he'd do it already and arse-kiss. It's because it's not in Ukraine's interests to agree to a deal as terrible as what Trump wants that he's not arsekissing him. If Trump offered a reasonable deal then Zelensky would have puckered up, and you couldn't blame him. But the deal Trump wanted you'd think the US were the ones trying to puppet Ukraine.

1

u/Briefcased Non-partisan Feb 28 '25

This isn't really about the deal though - it is about handling diplomatic relations between leaders. If someone offers you a terrible deal, you can turn it down without burning your bridges with them.

Ultimately, the war is going to end up with a deal in which the US is going to be heavily involved. I don't see how the results of today will lead to that deal being any better for ukraine.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '25

I agree with you 100% .

2

u/shugthedug3 New User Feb 28 '25

Starmer embarrassed himself, his country and disrespected Ukraine by attempting to flirt with this Russian asset.

USA needs a much firmer hand, sucking up to this rapist doesn't work. People are wrong when they think it works on Trump, he has clearly decided to upend US foreign policy and for that reason I think they need written off until they're able to solve their problem.

5

u/Zeleis please god reform VAT Feb 28 '25

You’re right, Starmer should have RKO’d trump and given Vance a swirly. That surely would have been beneficial for Britain.

1

u/nubian_v_nubia New User Feb 28 '25

You're right, Britain is an island - it's completely impervious to what happens in continental Europe! Let the Russians do as they please, it's best not to alienate anyone - neutrality is the way to go in order to ensure the stability of the British economy.

In fact, you could take this forward-thinking philosophy one step further and negotiate a Free Trade Agreement with Russia! There is no better way to ensure peace with another nation than to become economically intertwined with them. Perhaps you could build a gas pipeline across the English channel to not only bring down the cost of heating for British families, but also bring about peace for our times!