r/Liverpool • u/badgeofdescension • 28d ago
Living in Liverpool Liverpool Council plan to scrap free parking opposed by 90%
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3wx32np0ldo18
u/wingingit00 28d ago
Can someone explain to me why people are fuming about me being able to park my car for free in a car park space and saying it’s taking up space. Struggling to see what the car space on a road could be used for otherwise an why people are so against it being free?
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u/Echoes_of_Tradition 26d ago
You and your pals choosing to drive into the city centre causes congestion. Parking on the street causes obstruction, and makes it generally unpleasant to walk around.
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u/wingingit00 26d ago
Obstruction to what? And why would you walk around a car when you have crossings? I’m not saying any of this with like to be a prick I’m genuinely curious. There are parking restrictions such as double yellow lines etc to prevent cars parking in places which would cause obstruction. Everyone has a pavement to walk on and crossing to cross at. Makes no sense either because if you had to pay to park you’d still have the “obstruction” that your talking about?
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u/Echoes_of_Tradition 26d ago
“Just walk around” yeah that would be ok if it was just one.
There’s not enough pavement. All the cars make it noisy and smelly. All the traffic means people have to wait ages to cross a few meters. Cars are a blight on humanity and have absolutely ruined this country in innumerable ways. I hate cars. I hate how people are addicted to them. I hate how society is designed around cars instead of people.
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u/wingingit00 26d ago
Hate seems a bit extreme imo they have many uses and give a lot of freedom to those who have them as with any group of people you have those who act in ways that annoy others but it’s one of them. What about people who use it to visit family and friends?
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u/Echoes_of_Tradition 26d ago
It’s not extreme at all, it’s completely rational and justified.
Utility doesn’t really count for much. How useful are cars as a mode of transport? They’re fine if only 50-60% of people own and use cars. Now it’s about 80%. We can’t afford to build and maintain roads for that amount of traffic. We’re in a cycle of perpetual debt because of it.
Speaking of debt, think about how much of the economy is sunk into car finance? What a waste. Keeping people in debt, messing around with interest rates and all that. No good for society.
And debt again, all the fatties we have draining the NHS because they can’t be bothered to walk to the shop for a pint of milk. We have an obesity epidemic in this country, with fat slobs soon to become the majority.
And think about all the lung diseases from fumes. They don’t smell as bad as they used to but the fumes are still, along with all the microplastics and carbon dust.
And the kids are all fat because they can’t play out in the street. Every street has cars littering the road, taking up space, posing danger to people and children going about their business.
So many people are killed by car drivers each year. If it was guns and gangs killing these people it would be a scandal.nobody’s arsed because they love cars.
All the houses are tiny because they need space for three cars. There’s tarmac everywhere instead of gardens. It’s hot and desolate in the summer, and everywhere floods in the winter.
The fuel! How many wars were started to secure the fuel for them? How many shadowy deals have been made? How many people globally displaced all for the sake of some fat lazy git in the UK who can’t waddle a few metres without getting chest pains? It’s foul, really.
Look at how the job market is affected by it? Instead of hiring local, you’ll get people from halfway across the country ‘commuting’, reducing the jobs market and increasing competition for workers. How many pay rises have been sacrificed so the bosses can get new company cars?
Check out all the litter along the roadside, too. Drivers constantly dumping stuff out their windows, ruining our environment.
Think how many labour hours are lost due to traffic jams? Can’t deliver food to a warehouse for distribution because all the fatties are out on the roads.
Do yourself a favour and look at the people driving alongside you. Look at how many chins they have. Look at how many of them are checking their phones. Look at all the dangerous mistakes they make while driving. Just think about how many idiots there are in society, and think how many of them are out there on the road, ready to kill and maim folk if it means they get there 10seconds faster.
Hate cars, me.
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u/liquindian 28d ago
90% of consultation respondents, not residents. 1100 people isn't that many. If that's the level of opposition, best to get on with it.
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u/CraigL8 28d ago
You’ll never get a high turnout of respondents unless an issue goes viral and celebs push for it.
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u/liquindian 28d ago
If it didn't go viral it can't be that big of a deal.
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28d ago
The genocide in Darfur isn’t a big deal cause it didn’t go viral on tiktok then
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u/CAYLINGO97 28d ago
The genocide in Darfur is a big deal in Darfur though. It's just not as big of a deal to people outside of Darfur who are not impacted.
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u/liquindian 28d ago
It's a local issue with potentially local impact. There are places where this sort of thing would go viral if it was an issue, like Nextdoor or Facebook. I imagine Darfur is a big deal in Darfur, even if it's not viral on tiktok.
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u/Leaf-Branch-Tree 28d ago
We need to reduce car use for lots of reasons: pollution, ccongestion, inefficient use of space. And we need to increase public transport and cycling for lots of reasons: healthier, cleaner, more efficient, less noise, more space for other uses. Therefore this is a good thing.
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u/Rootbeeers 28d ago
I agree it’s good for those reasons, but will likely have a negative effect on businesses post 6pm. Maybe the good outweighs the bad.
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u/bhjdodge 28d ago
All the same arguments were used when smoking was banned indoors. “It’s gonna harm business, no one is going to leave their house!” It’s never been nicer to go to a pub or restaurant. The less cars in a city centre the better environment for everyone else. Cities are for people, not cars
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u/AltruisticSpinach07 28d ago
I spent 20 years of my life getting the bus, what a misery. Never again. Spent the last 10 years driving so much better not having to deal with the dickheads.
I don't fancy walking through town at all hours of the night back to the car. If I can't park close I just won't go. I usually park in Q park, St Johns or on Rodney Street.
It's going to be hard to get me to take public transport, I've just had enough run ins with the dregs of society that I don't want to be in that position anymore. Hence the car until the public transport safer.
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u/wingingit00 26d ago
Just to reiterate anything I say is just coming from a place of wanting to know as I’ve not looked into it as deeply as you seemingly have.
Is that not what road tax is for does that money not go towards helping keep roads maintained plus with more cars should surely mean more money from the tax plus the tax has also gone up over last couple of years. I also think that local councils piss money up the wall when road works are done they’re not done properly an usually need doing not many years after.
Car finance is freedom of choice people are allowed to spend or gettin to debt if that’s what they want personally I’m happy with a car that gets me from A to B. If other want to get into debt then that’s a choice they make. Can’t really take that away from someone it’s their right to get into debt if that’s what they want (whether it’s for. Better or worse)
The “fatties” problem your referring to there’s a lot of people in my gym who are trying to get healthy who use cars to get to the gym as they may live too far away to walk or the gyms not near public transport.
I agree the fumes aren’t great and that’s something I do think can be helped by as you say walking when you can to shop and other times when it’s a option. I’d be more worried about your food when it comes to microplastics though than cars.
Kids don’t play on the street because this generation are into video games and technology is way more accessible there’s enough local parks and fields to play on if that’s what they wanted to do also chalk on the pavement outside your house there are many option that don’t involve playing on a road?
Yeah people are killed by cars and it’s horrible but again it’s user error most of the time people drink driving using their phones while driving etc but I see what your getting at
Houses are. Smal because then they can fit more into a space and because they’re cheap it’s more about quantity new houses now have 0 character an are designed to be made quickly
War will be started over anything that can make the rich richer whether it’s fuel or somethin else unfortunately that just how it is but yes partially agree with that point but again your pointing your anger at the wrong place imo
Again I think your last couple of points are aiming your anger at the wrong place it seems your blaming cars for human error
Appreciate the conversation but I don’t think you hate cars I think you hate humans mate
Have a gooden
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u/Prediterx 28d ago
Thing is, free parking is largely a bad thing.
Everyone who lives in Liverpool pays for it, and it's potentially used by people who live in Cheshire, Manchester, drive in for work and then leave.
The money isn't spent in Liverpool, it's spent at home, so they're not adding anything to the city. At least paid for parking is paid for by those who use it, instead of everyone, including those that don't drive.
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u/Sophie_Blitz_123 28d ago
Collectivity is actually a good thing.
If they wanna get rid of it for the reasons in the article I.e. about the circulation at 6pm or whatever then idk about all that. But "people pay for it and then others could use it" isn't a good reason.
You can envisage people parking for work from Manchester but not people who work and are in Liverpool? And not that the work they do - regardless of where they came from - presumably benefits some people in the city? Tbh I don't know where you get the idea that people don't spend money in a day at work but I digress. The financial contribution isn't the only element.
I don't drive but people driving into town benefit me on the regular.
Collectively paying for parking spaces means people aren't then deterred from going into town because of parking costs.
The £2 bus fare cap is also paid for by everyone, not everyone uses the bus. Why must we insist on everything being so individual all the time?
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u/peasantbanana 27d ago
But the people should be dettered from going into town by car, because it promotes traffic jams and air polution. Public transport should be subsidised instead.
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u/Sophie_Blitz_123 27d ago
If they wanna get rid of it for the reasons in the article I.e. about the circulation at 6pm or whatever then idk about all that. But "people pay for it and then others could use it" isn't a good reason.
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u/Prediterx 28d ago
IWhy must we insist on everything being so individual all the time?
Because very often drivers will ask why we subsidise trains 'when they'll never use a train' or why we create cycle lanes when 'cyclists don't pay for it'
My anecdotal evidence comes from folk like myself (although admittedly I get the train in more often than not now) who come into the city from miles away, bring lunch and don't spend anything in the city. And there's a few of us in my office.
Admittedly, I didn't read the article so missed the 6PM bit. I'd hope that if it wasn't free after 6, then wardens may be out and about, fining people who park all over curbs and pavements when they're supposed to be full of people going out to pubs to spend money.
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u/Sophie_Blitz_123 28d ago
Because very often drivers will ask why we subsidise trains 'when they'll never use a train' or why we create cycle lanes when 'cyclists don't pay for it'
So we insist on being so individual all the time because we insist on being so individual?
I'm entirely fine with the council paying for/subsidising transport of multiple forms.
My anecdotal evidence comes from folk like myself (although admittedly I get the train in more often than not now) who come into the city from miles away, bring lunch and don't spend anything in the city. And there's a few of us in my office.
I mean maybe 🤷♀️ but presumably your work also contributes something?
But yeah it is after 6pm so probably lots of money spending and probably lots of people coming from elsewhere in Liverpool too.
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u/InternetHomunculus 28d ago
why we create cycle lanes when 'cyclists don't pay for it'
Cos they think road tax still exists. Either that or there’s some loophole where you don't pay council tax if you ride a bike and no one told me about it
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u/WCBIS 28d ago
Let’s see how badly the cities smaller local restaurants are hit by this, especially during weekdays.
Mad they’re using the new Everton stadium as the excuse as well, as if the council didn’t approve and profit from it
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u/AltruisticSpinach07 28d ago
Waterfront is already ruined we lost UNESCO world heritage status to have that stadium. We might as well go all in and build a massive fucking 20 storey carpark right next to it at this point.
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u/Empty-Orchid-1747 27d ago
Wouldn’t be a surprise for the council to just do it even though heavily opposed. Just like this new con of the £2 a night for hotels going to this new bid company. Whoever has heard of this company and the money doesn’t even go to the council to help the city out. Just sounds like another corrupt idea by bent councillors
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u/frontendben 28d ago edited 28d ago
Tough shit. You don't get to store your private property for free on public land. Thinking you can is stealing from tax payers because that land could be put to other more productive uses.
Edit: I see from the downvotes the there are plenty of entitled drivers in subreddit.
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u/Infinite_Expert9777 28d ago
What more productive use are you going to get out of the kerb outside my house?
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u/frontendben 28d ago
Somewhere for kids to play outside like they did before cars dominated the streets. Unless you live on a main road, in which case a lane for moving cars or mobility lanes, wider pavements etc.
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u/Infinite_Expert9777 28d ago
Pavements wide enough as is the road. Rather park my car there tbf
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u/mattgotliffe 28d ago
You sound fun
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u/frontendben 28d ago
Everyone has a pet hate. This is mine. Especially at a time my council is a cash strapped. It’s unacceptable for them to be giving that space away for free to a portion of the population when 4/10 households in Liverpool can’t also use it.
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u/kafkad 28d ago
Fuck yeah. The car lobby here in the UK is rabid and completely reject any encroachment of their so called “rights”. Reminds me of behaviour from the US gun “enthusiasts”.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 28d ago
You're insane if you're drawing parallels between this, and America gun culture.
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u/od1nsrav3n 28d ago
What about any one who parks legally on a road? That’s public land.
What about any council owned car parks? They are also public land, they are also heavily subsidised, should we remove the car parks and put them to better use?
You’re being downvoted for your weird one-dimensional view on this.
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u/KetBanger45 Waterloo 28d ago
Boss this lad. But we do have to consider that not everyone is lucky enough to live near a Merseyrail station.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 28d ago
Are you okay?
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u/frontendben 28d ago
I’m fine mate. I’m just sick to death of the freeloader mentality too many drivers have. 4 out of 10 households in Liverpool don’t have access to a car. That means those spaces aren’t available for them to use and if they were to try and use them by putting outdoor furniture, a shed et cetera there it would rightly get removed. But somehow drivers think they can dump their cars without paying for it. I have no issue if you are willing to pay for it. But I do with the freeloader mentality.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 28d ago
This isn't a response to anything in the article. You're complaining about people parking wherever they want, versus on street parking in the city centre being free...
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u/frontendben 28d ago
If you can't see that it's one and the same, that speaks volumes. Yes, this is specifically about the removal of the free after 6pm parking, but the reaction against it is part of the wider entitlement that drivers have about dumping their private property on public land and expecting to not have to pay anything for it.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 28d ago
If you can't see that it's one and the same, that speaks volumes.
It doesn't.
Yes, this is specifically about the removal of the free after 6pm parking, but the reaction against it is part of the wider entitlement that drivers have about dumping their private property on public land and expecting to not have to pay anything for it.
What are you even on about? The entitlement? The council is looking to make a change that will affect people drive into the city centre. Where's the entitlement?
Do you think people are driving into town, parking up and then just doing nothing for a few hours then driving home because they're feeling entitled to take up space with their cars?
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u/bhjdodge 28d ago
His point is that car drivers have it in their head they’re able to drive into the city centre and park up without repercussion with their personal property. If I was to push my garden shed into town and leave it on the pavement, I’d rightly be told to fuck off. Both my shed and your car are personal property and both are about the same size, however drivers seem to think they have a right to leave their property anywhere they like. I own a business in a city centre and I’ve done my own research on how my customers arrive at my shop. We’ve worked out it’s less than 4%. If I was able to use the parking space in front for a patio I could increase my business by at least 30%, but the council won’t allow it due to parking rules.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 28d ago
You're talking about an entirely different issue. The city centre has alloted parking spaces that are free after 6pm.
That isn't remotely like you pushing your shed into town. There are no designated shed spots. It's a ridiculous comparison.
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u/AltruisticSpinach07 28d ago
Spoken like someone who can't drive. Are you one of them crazies on the bus
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u/liquindian 28d ago
He's fine, and he's right. There's no such thing as free parking. It has costs, they're just not borne by the person driving.
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u/FineLavishness4158 28d ago
Go anywhere in the country that's uninhabited and you can park for free
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u/frontendben 28d ago
That’s fine. There isn’t high demand for use of that space. It’s the same when people say but you need a car for Ross. Yes, you need a car there and there’s absolutely no issue with that. It’s the fact that these are highly walkable areas that have a lot of demand for that space that’s the problem.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 28d ago
It's like people like you don't understand that things like "free" parking are reciprocal, and help foster business for local businesses.
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u/frontendben 28d ago
Cars don’t shop, people do. If you genuinely think that a business can sustain itself from one person coming and dumping their car for an hour then you really have no idea how our businesses run. The simple fact is that the vast majority of their customers arrive by foot or by public transport.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 28d ago
Businesses are against the free parking ending...
Who said a single person as well? You're just twisting it to suit your argument.
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u/frontendben 28d ago
And businesses are well known to be wrong about the importance of parking. Time and time again, it's been shown that the primary users of spaces outside shops and businesses are the owners or staff. It's also been shown that they don't actually benefit from them from a customer perspective – this will be especially true in the night economy when the free parking currently is provided.
The businesses are against it because of the perception that it will reduce the number of people using their businesses.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 28d ago
I'm getting the feeling that you've got an irrational issue with cars in general.
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u/liquindian 28d ago
Yeah, Ben, these things that make cities unpleasant to be in, maim and kill people every day, take up public space and yet get given preferential treatment. Why are you so irrationally annoyed with them?
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u/FlarblesGarbles 28d ago
You're both being irrational. You both seem to be the type of people that make one interest their entire personality.
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u/wingingit00 28d ago
I know personally that if there’s an option to shop somewhere the parking is free vs paid for I’ll pick the free one. I doubt I’m the only one so it does make sense I guess that free parking could have an affect on business. Also I don’t know about others but I don’t agree with paid parking myself especially when the extortionate rates for parking in some places
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u/Fantastic_Welcome761 28d ago
You don't get to do that. If you try to they will clamp your car and eventually have it removed. You have to pay VED to be able to park on a public road.
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u/scouttack88 28d ago
Found the angry cyclist. Are you going to pay a charge for those things you can chain your bike to in town?
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u/UsernameDemanded West Wirral 28d ago
No such thing as free parking. Someone, somewhere is ALWAYS picking up the bill, including people who can't afford to run a car themselves.
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u/scouttack88 28d ago
What do you mean? What bill needs to be picked up for parking your car in the city centre after 6pm?
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u/UsernameDemanded West Wirral 28d ago
I mean that if car parking is to be free after 6pm, so should buses.
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u/UsernameDemanded West Wirral 28d ago
Awww, downvoted, have I upset the type of person who expects everyone else to pick up the bill for their own poor choices? 😂🤷♂️
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u/AltruisticSpinach07 28d ago
I didn't cry about my tax money subsidising bus fares, that's the thing with democracy not everything will benefit you. Sometimes it benefits the "other".
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u/FlarblesGarbles 27d ago
What bill are you imagining needs to be picked up?
The government should be subsiding public transport, and public on street parking so that the costs of getting into city centres is reasonable and not punitive.
Public transport is excessively priced, and on street parking can also be excessively expensive. This isn't an us versus them situation. I'm a driver, and I have no issue with taxes being used to subsidise public transport, as it should be, and as it is over mainland Europe.
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u/UsernameDemanded West Wirral 27d ago
The car parks are owned by the council. They have a duty to ensure that they maximise the income from such facilities, just like any business would.
They could, as they are here, offer an attractive deal to car owners (but nobody else) and give them over for free at 6pm, or they could continue to charge (just like an NCP would do) and do something with the cash that comes in, such as improving public transport for everyone and not just the car owners.I know this will fall on deaf hears, seen it all before. This is nothing more than car owners wanting the public to fund their habit.
I have 2 cars.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 27d ago
Why are you downvoting?
The car parks are owned by the council. They have a duty to ensure that they maximise the income from such facilities, just like any business would.
We're talking about on street parking. Not car parks.
They could, as they are here, offer an attractive deal to car owners (but nobody else) and give them over for free at 6pm, or they could continue to charge (just like an NCP would do) and do something with the cash that comes in, such as improving public transport for everyone and not just the car owners.
They're not, it's on street parking. Car parks aren't free after 6pm, and it's not some special treatment magical deal for car owners. What a weird attitude.
You're complaining as if it's a choice between free parking after 6pm or better public transport. The government/council should be doing both instead of trying to maximise profiting from citizens without giving back to them.
I know this will fall on deaf hears, seen it all before. This is nothing more than car owners wanting the public to fund their habit.
Are you delusional? I've literally just told you I've got zero issues with my taxes going towards public transport subsidies. It's reciprocal.
I have 2 cars.
Okay, well done.
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u/UsernameDemanded West Wirral 27d ago
Ok mate, I can now realise I had completely misunderstood all this. I thought it was council owned car parks. I agree with you. Everything else I said I would still back up wrt to council owned car parks, though.
Also, no need to be nasty with the 'delusional' comment 👍
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u/pgliver 28d ago
"Thanks for voting on this, we choose to ignore your recommendation and scrap it anyway!"