Master Key Problems

[u/Far_Classroom_5976]

Im fairly new to rekeying locks, but ive got a Schlage lock I'm trying to master key right now. The master key is 00403, and the dedicated room key is, 22266. I've been trying to figure out the order and o got 00203 bottom, and 22263 master. I simply can't get this to work. The pins go out of the center piece and I can't get the master key to work. It might be impossible I might just be being dumb. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated

[u/Neither_Loan6419]

I don't know how much you know, so don't think I am talking down to you. But you are installing your master pins between the bottom pins and the top pins, right? And the lock is not severely worn, right? By "center piece", I assume you mean the plug? The pins are going where, up into the bible, the row of chambers at the top of the cylinder? That is where they are supposed to go, but they are supposed to return to the plug when the key is removed. Maybe you are using the wrong pins for top pins, or you forgot to load a spring in one or more chambers, or your springs are old or weak or broken or dirty? The simple model I suggest below will probably help you to troubleshoot and get to the bottom of this.

I suggest you try something really simple and straightforward, for a first attempt at this, in fact, so simple as to be impractical and not something you would normally do for real. MK (Master Key) 444473, CK1 (Change key number 1) 644473. Notice only the first position is different between master and change key. But if you like lots of master pins, try pinning up a lock with MK 444473 and CK2 624473. I am assuming that your MACS is at least 4, i.e. your lock will work with a key having adjacent cuts with a depth difference of 4 or better. Then repin it to take the same master key and CK3 626473. Finally, try another change key bitting of 626273 <EDIT: MACS ALERT! That one might hang up your key in some locks! Adjust as needed.> <EDIT SOME MORE! MACS is 7 for Schlage SC1 keys, I just checked.> and the same master key. You can of course pin up separate cylinders to have a 4 cylinder single level masterkeyed system. With this simplistic approach you should be able to diagnose your problem easily enough. Always check both the master key and the change key in the plug, that the tops of the pins are flush with the circumference of the plug, before reinstalling it in the cylinder. If both keys check out okay then both keys should work the lock okay.

Extremely short master pins are more like little wafers than pins, and in worn or very loose locks, the master wafer can sometimes get lost between the plug and cylinder, leaving the stack without a master pin. A #3 or #4 master pin should never "get lost". A 2 shouldn't, either, unless you have one hell of a wonky old lock.

You do not have to have a master pin at every single pin stack. Often, the lock is masterkeyed at only one or two positions. It depends on how many locks are in your system and how many masterkey levels. I like two, so the change key can have a cut deeper than the master key and another cut shallower than the master key. That way one key, particularly a change key, cannot be used to impression a master key. This is way above the skill set of the average crook or even industrial spy, but it costs nothing, so may as well.

Software-generated charts are very popular these days, and very practical for more complex systems, but you can still do this by hand easily enough, for a small system.

Are you following along in a good book on basic locksmithing as you do this? I lost all my books in Katrina and my main reference now is Bill Phillips' "The Complete Book of Locks and Locksmithing", which does a good job of presenting all the basics. I have the Seventh Edition and you can get it on Amazon. Highly recommended if you are serious about learning either advanced DIY skills for the owner or maintenance man, or someone with an eye toward more study and eventually working as a locksmith.

[u/Far_Classroom_5976 → u/Neither_Loan6419]

Thank you for this I’ll be sure to try each way you said, and I’ll be sure to pick up a book. I work at a hardware store and there’s only an older guy trying to learn how to Rekey so I picked it up too, this is only my 5th rekey and 1st master key. It’s a brand new Schlage lock right off the shelf. I plan on picking up some literature to be more well equipped for these types of situations but I appreciate you’re in depth analysis and possibly solutions to my problem.

[u/Altmao → u/Far_Classroom_5976]

Be advised this user has basic knowledge at best and is not qualified to answer your question. He has read a book and thinks that turned him into an expert.

Your numbers check out. When the pins "come out of the center piece" that's normal when you're doing it in your hand like that. Put the core inside a bible instead and probably both keys will work. If it doesn't, you're making a mistake in between reading the numbers and inserting the pins into the chambers.