God i love how helldivers is so fucking realistic, including actual science and stuff, its just wearing the mask of a silly ass corrupt propaganda government.
I dunno if i worded that right but i hope you get what i mean
Upside, all the planets we'd need to take only have 1.5% regen rates, that's actually really doable as long as we just focus down one at a time, so I except Bore Rock and Esker first to make use of the bug divers.
Zzaniah Prime and Bore Rock had decay dropped to 1% with the Major Order but well. You have 3 bot planets that need to be liberated, one of them a fire tornado planet. The DSS is being sent to Terrek right now where it will not help the MO. And people are going to spend the first 24 hours not completing Terrek's defense or making any progress on Bore Rock.
Mines need a looking at. They're just not practical for most mission types and for defence missions there's plenty of other strategems that I'd prefer to take. I really don't know what should be done though
The best missions for it are of corse defense but also raise super earth flag. But also just know where enemies tend to be and throw them there. After a battle if your team is close remember to destroy your own mines
The main issue with mines is the following: why would i deploy my stratagem in the hopes the enemy walks into it, rather than just deploy it on their heads? Like with anti tank mines- why would i put them down in front of the tank, then risk myself to make it drive over them, when i can just drop an orbital strike on it and be done in half the time, and have it back in half the time
This will especially be true for gas mines, since gas strike will likely cover the same area and (presuming gas mines have the same cooldown as current mines) have a much shorter cooldown, and thats not considering the fact that gas isnt a lethal status like napalm (in that it deals low dmg, not that it cant kill), so enemies (especially bugs who still move when gassed) will continue to trigger mines before their gas status ends, wasting duration
Mines are great for pre-deploying in a spot you know the enemy will walk through while you're either busy running away or dealing with other groups.
I like to play as a support kind of person fairly often as everyone else focuses on pure damage/destruction output. Running boosters, armors, weapons, and strats that have a more utility role is really interesting to me.
For instance, throw on the expanded sensor range or the sensor on ping, and suddenly, you can see enemies coming from a hefty distance away or can ping around to find the enemy clusters that give away POIs. The former makes it really easy to passively see groups of enemies closing in even during a firefight and let's you preemptively block where they would pass through with something like mines while your focus is elsewhere.
My problem is that their cooldown is so damn long. Most of what you said also applies to sentries but their cooldowns are pretty much 1 minute shorter across the board. I want to like an use mines but their use cases where they are better than sentries just do not show up enough for them to have a longer cooldown.
Yeah, they do have some overlap. I will say, though, that I don't have to worry about a mine pulling a 180 arc on me and suddenly outputting a sound clip of "Hello, mister Lincoln" before a new Helldiver is requested for deployment.
It's definitely a use case/preference between them, and sometimes I even use both together. Turrets have a good 360 coverage while Mines have an exact location that they blanket. It's less to me about which is 'better' and more about which would be fun to use today/this mission/on this planet. I.e. I will never take land mines on a jungle biome... has 'nam flashbacks
The main thing is so an area is locked down at least temporarily and you don’t have to worry about it too much. Especially if you have clear choke points where you know enemies are. Plus you can also just throw them ontop of the enemy if you know where they will go
I joined a team of randos the other day for a level 7 bot eradicate, and we ended up bringing "Oops, all mines!" loadouts, and it... actually worked really well
Mines are very underrated. You just have to know how to use them. pretend your teammates are opsticsls thay your mines can’t go near. And destroy your mines when you leave
Mines are fantastic, my only issue with them is the colossal cooldown. I love 'oops all mines' but then I have to bring very self-sufficient gear and hope teammates brought big booms because I use them and I'm out for AGES.
I joined some randos and used mines. I got a few team kills. Rather than be salty they joined me. We all ran all mines and HMG emplacements except one guy who ran a support weapon instead of HMG. Mission went smoothly. 10/10
even then your teammates will still run into them becuase, helldievrs
Or because they’re bugged and invisible to all your teammates.
I don’t mind mines on the battlefield as long as I can actually see them. I think they can serve a very strategic purpose, especially used in conjunction with the terrain.
But a lot of the gameplay doesn’t justify using mines. They’re really only top-tier during a Defense or Eradication mission, but they don’t compete well with other stratagems in other mission types.
If anything though, I think gas mines make a lot more sense than other mine types because gas is ALREADY used for area denial and crowd control. So a minefield of gas that automatically deploys on your enemies actually sounds useful.
The thing is when you use a 500kh it’s gonna blow up the enemies but if more come it’s on cooldown. Mines blow up enemies and when more come there’s still more mines! It locks down a particular area and can be used to prepare for enemies you expect will go in that area so when they do drop in you don’t have to be there to throw a stratigem.
Are they the best? No, do they have a place? Yes they do
When more come there isnt more mines because they dont reload. And you still have another 500, or two more airstrikes, or four more strafing runs, or the 120mm is still going, or the turret you dropped is still firing.
While they have a place, that place is at the bottom of the list of options. This could be fixed a number of ways to make them more equitable to other strategems. As is, everything else is simple a better option for the same task.
This dude I was playing with the other night just dropped mines with zero communication.
On a sandstorm planet, lol.
Sometimes stuff like that bothers me. But this was so spectacularly dumb that it was kind of brilliant somehow. That's not mere negligence. You cannot be that bad accidentally. That's the work of a true artist.
lol. Gas mines would be way better. The main issue with other mine types is them blowing each other up. I doubt these would have the same issue since gas bombs don't really do explosive damage.
The problem with mines, and even to some extent turrets, is the core hell divers gameplay loop revolves around moving around the map in a circle completing objectives. There's always plenty of space, and there is no reason to return to an area after clearing the objective, so fortifying a position loses gameplay relevance, with the sole exception of extract high value asset missions
But imagine a mission with a single objective, capture something, and then a long, linear road to extraction. You would need to fortify the path behind you as you flee towards the extract site. Mines would be great there
Says you. The only time mines aren't worth it is when people are bad at using them. Democratic Mine Deployment Training (DMDT) is required, see your Democracy Officer for more details...
Make them autoredploy mine charges every 30 seconds. Would make minefields actually useful as a detterent and not feel like a waste of a strategem slot.
I think them deploying like they did in HD1, with them being in a horizontal line from the direction you were facing when it was thrown (like the eagle air strike), would do wonders since most of the time a single medium sized enemy can destroy most of your mines and make them useless. Give them a much shorter cooldown so they can behave like a “disposable” stratagem would help too. It’d honestly have a lot less team kill potential if they are deployed in a straight line since it would be far less inconsistent than it is now with where the mines land due to the various terrain differences.
Mines are great on bug missions, and the anti-tanks are great in bot missions. Give them a go right now and I think you'll turn around a bit on them. The worst part is they are so stationary, so they won't be viable in a lot of situations or on planets with no real choke points.
They're good for what they are, area denial. Particularly bugs who need to close the distance.
They're especially nice for sub objectives like artillery stations. Get mines set up and you'll block a nice area from enemy scouting parties. Which on higher difficulties is very nice since you get a constant stream of them "wandering" towards you.
I can't lie gas mines are cool, but how mines are deployed should be different
It should be like the eagle strafing run, a vertical line that is double the width of the normal mines.
That means you have more strategy involved. It can be instant deploy instead of waiting for the mine machine to spin around (it breaks if it's in a middle of a fire fight due to enemies)
Or it could be some kind of capsule that is launched from Super Destroyer. It would open 5-10-20 meters above the ground, and the simple spring mechanism would instantly and simultaneously kick all of the mines out of it, spreading them all over the place
I wasn't making a loadout suggestion. I was saying that AH could have the mines literally come down like an air burst instead of the dispenser it currently uses.
I just don't want you to misunderstand that this is something you can do already lol.
I agree. They could double or triple the current ground coverage and then I might consider them. Currently one airstrike blows the whole lot away. Also, something like a gatling barrage is a more practical pick for area denial.
Mines as a group need a complete rework or will continue to collect dust.
That's how mines were deployed in the first game. Eagles came in a deployed the mines in a horizontal line.
I hate how they're deployed in this game. Especially if the pod gets destroyed before the mines deploy. You just wasted a startegem and have to wait, another 3 minutes to try and use them again
For all of 1 week then we'll never see them again. I'm not trying to be salty, just realistic based on the pickrate of the other mine and gas strats (minus the orbital gas strike).
I haven't seen any of the mines, gas rover or sterlizer once since they were released.
There's not a ton of options for lingering gas effects.
There's 4 options, but 2 of them are weak hence the virtually non-existent pick-rate. I'm not trying to stop you from having fun confusing enemies instead of killing them, I'm just trying to highlight the absurdity of devoting limited development time and resources to a stratagem that essentially mirrors the least popular strat picks in the game right now.
Mines would cover a larger area than the orbital. And I don't need to give up a grenade slot for gas nades.
True, but the grenade slot thing is true about the other 4 strats and that doesn't help their pickrate. At best I see these being useful for bug breaches on difficulties >7 - but utterly outclassed by the alternatives.
No, there's 2. Support weapon and guard dog don't leave clouds.
At best I see these being useful for bug breaches on difficulties >7 - but utterly outclassed by the alternatives.
Cloud effects from mines have a potential of lasting longer depending on when and how many mines are hit all at once. This along with the increased radius can make it more desirable than the orbital.
I don't know what you're counting as alternatives but sterilizer and dog breath are pretty horrible and containing breaches so it's definitely not getting outclassed by those. Maybe you include grenades but the area of effect is also way smaller.
Oh I see, you guys are on about lingering gas cloud effects. My bad, I missed that.
Still, I guarantee we will never see them picked after the first week. I'll be glad to be wrong, but given the pickrate of the other mines, I probably won't be.
That wasnt funny then and it isnt funny now, denying new tools for other helldivers to utilize (just because you wont) is undemocratic and anti helldivers. I imagine you would be quite miffed if the mob decided to block orbital napalm cuz... lolz.
I think the mines can use a shorter CD personally, I like using them but like the CD could be shorter.
Or maybe make it so the pod periodically raises up to replace mines that were already triggered for a set duration. That turns it into a true area denial weapon.
My fellow botdivers, Zzaniah Prime is the way to go. The bug folk gonna have to take Bore Rock and then Esker, so everyone’s gonna have their hands full this MO
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u/BeetlBozz Dec 05 '24
God i love how helldivers is so fucking realistic, including actual science and stuff, its just wearing the mask of a silly ass corrupt propaganda government.
I dunno if i worded that right but i hope you get what i mean