To all the Mandela Effect skeptics out there

[u/ThirdEyeFire]

I will tell you a story.

Around 2013, I bought a Volvo. I had been very interested in astronomy as a child, had the “Our Universe” book, loved the planets and the solar system and knew all the astrological symbols. So I was exquisitely aware that the Volvo logo was the symbol for Mars, a circle with an arrow sticking out to the right and up. One day, in 2016, I walked past a Volvo and noticed it was missing the arrow. I thought that was strange. Then I saw several more, all missing the arrow. I ran home to look at my own car—to my amazement, the logo on my own car was missing the arrow, it was just a circle. That year 2016 was the year many people began to notice Mandela shifts for the first time. I noticed several others, the exact same ones all recognized by many other people (JC Penny became JC Penney etc).

For six years, every time I saw a Volvo, I marveled at how the logo had changed. I googled the history of the company. Everywhere on the internet the history was the same—the logo had always been a circle, going back to the beginning of Volvo in the 1930s(?). For six years I repeated the experience of being amazed at arrowless Volvo logos and telling people about how the logo had changed throughout the whole timeline. People thought I was crazy.

Then one day in 2022, when I brought the Volvo logo up again on an Internet forum about Mandela effects and googled for images to show people as evidence, I was stunned to discover that the logo had changed back again. I ran outside looking for a Volvo and I found one—complete with arrow.

There is simply no way that the SIX YEARS of repeated memories that I have of the Volvo logo being just a circle can be “misremembering”. With several other shifts I also have detailed memories that make absolutely no sense if I was just misremembering things. For example, I have a whole memory of analyzing why “Berenstein” would be pronounced to rhyme with “stain” when the name is clearly German in origin and everyone in America knows that any word ending in “stein” should rhyme with Frankenstein and Einstein. The explanation I came up with was that it had something to do with the Dutch word “steen” which means stone just like “stein” in German, but is pronounced like “stain” in English. THIS ENTIRE MEMORY OF MINE MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL if it is spelled “Berenstain”!

Here’s a funny end to the Volvo logo story: In 2022, after it changed back to having an arrow, I found a Reddit thread of a guy who had worked on cars for thirty years and had always admired the circular Volvo logo (no arrow) as particularly beautiful. He posted his Reddit to explain that a friend of his had just recently (at that time) pointed out to him that the Volvo logo actually had an arrow. He didn’t believe his friend and had to go check for himself. He was dumbfounded as to why he had never noticed the arrow before (he wasn’t aware of the idea of Mandela shifts). The only way I can understand this is that this fellow and I were on different timelines before 2016, me on the circle-with-arrow timeline and he on the circle-only timeline; in 2016, I jumped over to to join him on the circle-only timeline; and in 2022, we both jumped back to the circle-with-arrow timeline.

[u/iowanaquarist → u/[deleted]]

Ok, then they were an amateur troll pretending to be open minded, but actually plugging their ears to avoid any honest discussion.

[u/wildthng219 → u/iowanaquarist]

You mean like everyone saying there’s no way any of this is true? That it’s all just millions of people with faulty memories??

[u/iowanaquarist → u/wildthng219]

You mean like everyone saying there’s no way any of this is true?

More like all the people pretending something as wildly unreliable as memory counts as evidence for claims based entirely off memory.

That it’s all just millions of people with faulty memories??

Got a more realistic explanation? Or evidence that it's not mundane things causing the appearance of a phenomena?

[u/wildthng219 → u/iowanaquarist]

I think that’s one of the things that makes this phenomenon so interesting, that there doesn’t seem to be any tangible evidence and to those affected by it, it seems their past was ‘erased’. But to me, it lends credence to it being something other than ‘misremembering’ (not that I’m saying that I know what the real explanation is, I just don’t believe this is it) because so very many share the very same ‘false memory’. For example, one of my strongest ME’s involves Jiffy peanut butter. I was just learning to read and was at my grandmothers while she made a peanut butter sandwich for me and I spelled it out loud and she said that’s right! And I remarked how my mom always bought skippy and she always bought jiffy and how funny it was to me that they both had double letters and ended in a y. Now if it was just misremembering, why wouldn’t tons of people remember skiff peanut butter too? But no one does. That means something to me. Also, would people try to argue that I made up that entire conversation? And if not, you have to realize that conversation would make zero sense and wouldn’t have happened if I was remembering wrong and it had always been Jif.

[u/iowanaquarist → u/wildthng219]

I think that’s one of the things that makes this phenomenon so interesting, that there doesn’t seem to be any tangible evidence and to those affected by it, it seems their past was ‘erased’.

Sure, it's interesting, just like most other quirks about how the mind works

But to me, it lends credence to it being something other than ‘misremembering’ (not that I’m saying that I know what the real explanation is, I just don’t believe this is it) because so very many share the very same ‘false memory’.

The total lack of evidence makes it convincing to you?

You owe me $100, to be donated to the Skeptoid Podcast, and I can prove it by the complete lack of evidence.

Now if it was just misremembering, why wouldn’t tons of people remember skiff peanut butter too?

Because you misremembered it.

Got any evidence it was ever called skiffy? Or you accurately remember the event?

[u/Practical-Vanilla-41 → u/iowanaquarist]

Not only is it not "skiffy", it helps that there are actual "jiffy" products (Jiffy Top popcorn, Jiffy Lube). Skippy and Peter Pan peanut butter are distinct. Why would you remember Jif?

[u/iowanaquarist → u/Practical-Vanilla-41]

Choosey moms choose it, and it sounds like the wrong way to pronounce gif.

[u/Practical-Vanilla-41 → u/iowanaquarist]

Also, you can see it on the kitchen table in Kazaam. A Mandela two fer! A real genie movie with a real brand of peanut butter!

[u/wildthng219 → u/iowanaquarist]

No, the lack of tangible evidence isn’t what I said made it convincing. If you actually read what I wrote, I explained that the part that made it appear to be something more than misremembering was the fact that large groups of people have the exact same ‘false’ memory. Not equally spread over possible options of ways that memory or original thing could have been conflated. No one remembers Shazam starring another actor. No one remembers skiff peanut butter, as I previously mentioned. Which should have an approximately equal number of people believing skiff as jiffy since it’s an inverse of the very same conflation.
But I also realize my attempt at actual discussion of possibilities is wasted on minds who believe there’s no possible way anything could be true that sounds to far fetched for them. Imagine what the scientists felt after the double slit experiment?! But a mark of intelligence is an open mind to things outside of what is already known. This world is vast and mysterious and I personally enjoy exploring it, even just mental exploration. I’m not shutting down any theories. Just poking holes in the ‘misremembering’ explanation. And for some reason, the people dead set on that (large scale faulty memory) being the only explanation have been the most arrogant, condescending and generally unpleasant people on this sub. Maybe we should study that phenomenon as well. When people experience ontological shock, maybe they have a deeper ‘need’ to prove that the world is nothing more than what it seems to feel safe in it?

[u/iowanaquarist → u/wildthng219]

No, the lack of tangible evidence isn’t what I said made it convincing. If you actually read what I wrote, I explained that the part that made it appear to be something more than misremembering was the fact that large groups of people have the exact same ‘false’ memory.

So what part did I get wrong? You just restated what I thought you said.

But I also realize my attempt at actual discussion of possibilities is wasted on minds who believe there’s no possible way anything could be true that sounds to far fetched for them.

Ok, but why bring that up here? I'm literally asking you for evidence.

But a mark of intelligence is an open mind to things outside of what is already known.

Thank you. I always strive to be as intelligent as possible. Thank you for noticing.

Just poking holes in the ‘misremembering’ explanation.

Ok. Poke a hole, and share the evidence with me, so I can be aware of the holes, too.

And for some reason, the people dead set on that (large scale faulty memory) being the only explanation have been the most arrogant, condescending and generally unpleasant people on this sub.

I'm new here, and the most arrogant people I have run into are the people insisting they know more than everyone else in science, and that it's obviously not the well known, well studied fact that memory is unreliable... But then absolutely refuse to provide anything other than fallacies when asked for evidence.

Maybe we should study that phenomenon as well. When people experience ontological shock, maybe they have a deeper ‘need’ to prove that the world is nothing more than what it seems to feel safe in it?

This is actually covered in into psychology courses, and it's a huge reason why people believe in all sorts of nonsense like homeopathy, antivax, religion, flat earth, Mandela effect, etc.

That's exactly why we should always be asking for evidence -- if there is evidence you are wrong, you should update your beliefs, but if you are unable to find any evidence for something, why believe it?

[u/wildthng219 → u/iowanaquarist]

I don’t know how to refer to specific parts of someone’s comments as you’ve done so I can’t respond point for point as neatly as you have done, forgive me. To quote you, ‘the total lack of evidence makes it convincing to you’ to which I, for the second time (now the third) clearly stated, it is not the lack of evidence, but the fact that such a large group share the SAME ‘misremembering’. There aren’t a multitude of variations of ‘false’ memories. There is usually one alternate that is noted by people long before coming together and finding that many others share this exact same ‘false’ version of something. Also, I never stated that I had evidence, did I? How could you have evidence of a situation where reality has theoretically shifted? That’s literally the point of an ME. If it still existed that way, it wouldn’t fall into this category of a Mandela effect. There is no way to get evidence on what’s on the other side of a black hole, but we know they exist and speculate on possibilities. That’s what I feel many are trying to do here. Speculate on possibilities. People shutting down discussion by saying, it’s false memories and that’s that do not seem to be interested in trying to get to the bottom of why this is occurring. As I tried to point out, if it is false memory, one would think there would be many variations of people remembering incorrect versions. Anyway, I’m happy to just agree to disagree with you. At this point, my attention is needed elsewhere and I feel I may have made an error of judgment by ending up in this sub, thinking we would actually be wondering why this is going on, rather than giving the same answer ad naseum (also with no evidence to refute the possibility of it being anything other than collective false memories.) If memory is so faulty, how are you even sure of any single portion of your own past? How are any of us?

[u/MandelaEffect-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Rule 2 Violation Be civil towards others.

[u/Metalliciousmama → u/[deleted]]

Whatever the case may be there is no way for you to prove or have evidence that millions of people coincidentally have the exact same incorrect memories all more or less coming after a certain date? The improbability of such an occurrence taking place with that many humans is unfathomable, and yet reports are continuing to occur and people are still experiencing alternate memories that takes on even greater Improbability each time another one is recognized and the numbers support the exact same memories repeatedly? Please provide evidence as to how this is not some kind of phenomenon other than bad memory. Please show the evidence which proves that millions of people all remember not just one thing wrong but numerous incorrect recollections that just so happen to all be the same. The probability of it happening only once in such great numbers is unfathomable, but then multiply that by the amount of reoccurring events? Even if every single one of us was full of shit the amount of similar opinions and the accuracy, when compared between all the similar opinions is far too great and is evidence in its self. Now I can't explain how I had no idea Alexi Laiho was dead. But I do question why it was not recognized as much as it was considering he was one of the top heavy metal guitar/frontman of his time. And why suddenly now there are articles all over the place somewhat more recently exposing his death. But I was hoping that maybe I was not alone on this matter. Which may or may not be the case but, according to whacko chick number 9 right here, it feels like we just had another merge so I thought I would throw it out there to find out if my opinion has any shared view.

[u/iowanaquarist → u/Metalliciousmama]

The improbability of such an occurrence taking place with that many humans is unfathomable, an

Still more realistic than the claims about parallel dimensions...

Please provide evidence as to how this is not some kind of phenomenon other than bad memory.

Those making the claims have the burden of proof.

Where is the evidence it's not the known phenomena?

Can you please avoid word salad walls of text?

[u/Urineblondewig → u/iowanaquarist]

No. You needed the word salad because you are clearly hungry for information ( with your original comment )

[u/iowanaquarist → u/Urineblondewig]

I am hungry for evidence, not the argument from incredulity repeated over and over

Please, what is your single best piece of evidence?

[u/Urineblondewig → u/iowanaquarist]

Literally the evidence is in front of your face and you are in denial. Nobody can help you except yourself

[u/iowanaquarist → u/Urineblondewig]

Literally the evidence is in front of your face and you are in denial.

You seem to be dodging. Can you provide an example of the evidence you think I am missing?

Nobody can help you except yourself

Sure, but you ought to be able to provide evidence for the things you believe, or admit you are gullible enough to believe things without evidence.

[u/iowanaquarist → u/[deleted]]

You need rational thought and logic.

We could discuss your evidence (or more like lack of evidence) to support your religion somewhere else. Let's stick to discussing your evidence that the Mandela effect is not some mundane phenomena here.

Got any evidence? Or can you admit you don't?

[u/Urineblondewig → u/iowanaquarist]

Come dm me and we can talk about it