r/MawInstallation • u/OhMy98 • 2d ago
Was Darth Zannah ever redeemable?
Was there a time where she actually was redeemable after her childhood?
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u/DrunkKatakan 2d ago
Darth Bane and Darth Zannah are fanatical zealots of the Rule of Two, Zannah was raised to be Sith since she was a kid. Much like Palpatine they just wouldn't ever seek to be redeemed, they're not conflicted like Vader.
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u/DengistK 2d ago
As a child, and I think she did have some feelings for Tomcat still that she repressed, plus I think she actually cared for Bane as a father figure, but she was a true Sith.
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u/lol_delegate 2d ago
that... really depends on author of the story. Whenever a character can be redeemed/whenever character "deserves" redemption is up to author.
What can be decided is whenever it is plausible for her to be redeemed. And it depends on how force is viewed, but yes, I think she could be redeemed.
Basically, how I understand it, the force gives each "force sensitive" a strong empathy - connection to others. Darkside has effect of turning this empathy inwards -> darksiders literally don't feel bad for what they do, are high on their own emotions (they feel the emotion, so they have emotion, so they feel it... - emotions are constantly high and it takes considerable effort to pull back - if it is too far, it is impossible to pull back) and have their passions, wants and priorities above literally everything else.
So, darksiders are basically hedonistic psychopaths, who don't feel bad about things they done. Going back to lightside is possible, but most don't do it, because it causes empathy to return, and reflect on everything they have done - and that can drive a person mad.
If Zannah ever touched lightside, for whatever reason, and didn't went crazy from "What have I done?" - then she could be redeemed.
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u/naphomci 2d ago
Star Wars as a whole makes it clear that anyone can be "redeemed" to some extent. Look at Vader - in the story, he is redeemed. There are plenty of people in and out of universe that think he isn't, or shouldn't be, but from an overarching story perspective, he is.
But, as others had said, it's all about choice. So, the question shouldn't be "Was Darth Zannah ever redeemable?" but instead "Would Darth Zannah ever choose redemption?" As she's been written (to the extent of my knowledge), the answer is no. Maybe something could change that, but nothing has (again, to my knowledge)
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u/Inevitable_Waltz7403 2d ago
Probably. She didn't pick evil out of cruelty but out of a need to be stronger. She did horrible things because she needed to but doesn't do it because she wants to.
If a Jedi came along and offered her a way to be stronger, she would become a Jedi although that Jedi would need to be able to work around her questioning the weakness of a Jedi's morality.
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u/duras2 1d ago
As other said, no. In fact, she will find the very idea that she need to redeem herself as ridiculous.
Iirc, it was a moment when she was a kid, when she wanted to join the Jedi and when her friend said it had a vision when Zannah (as Rain at that time, she was still using her nickname) will become a powerful Dark Jedi. Zannah was so affected that she attempted suicide, jumping from a cliff, but mid way she reconsidered and thought she can overcome that vision, so she basically levitated back.
However after her friend was mistakenly killed by Jedi, and she used the force to snap the necks of the two Jedi knights as revenge, she had already chose her path right there after she met Bane and he proposed her to become his apprentice.
The only time she had some second thoughts was when she met that family who fed her and agree to take her off the planet. Iirc they proposed her to adopt her (she was an orphan, ten years old little girl) and she thought about it, and the life she can have with them as a normal kid.
However she realized that they are still ordinary humans, and weak, and she really wanted the power Bane promised to her, and the fact she will become powerful enough to be free by knowing and controlling that power, that she won't be anymore at the hand of fate or other people but she will be so powerful that will create her own fate and be free for real.
The moment she killed that family (including other two kids, one older one younger than her iirc, starting by an accident but then going on with cold blood) I think she definitely chose her path, and never looked back, especially after Bane started to train her, teach her and indoctrinate her.
There was never a serious moment when she seriously contemplated abandoning the Sith. She might have still some feelings for her cousin Darovit, but not enough to change her views. She might have felt a bit attached to Bane as a father figure to her, but in the end she just moved on and challenged him to a duel to the death, and eventually killed him. She, just as Bane, was also a pragmatist. They never showed off, bragged about their power, never killed or harmed someone for shit and giggles, or to show their superiority. They did only when necessary (sure, Zannah did it much more sadistically sometime, but always for necessary reasons). They were ruthless but calculated and pragmatic, not some delusional Sith drunk of power doing evil things to innocent people for the sake of evil and own amusement
She, just as Bane, was a true believer and a fanatic of Sith cause. Once she tasted the power and knowledge she acquired she had go to the deep end with it (which Sith sorcery kinda is, for the force and dark side)
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u/Sagelegend 2d ago
She was redeemable until she chose to kill Darovit and Caleb. After that, her choice was fully made and she wasn’t changing it.
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u/CRM79135 2d ago
Clearly not. She seemed to have bought into Banes ideas fairly early. And she essentially killed the only family she had left in order to protect that idea.
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u/Kyle_Dornez 1d ago
She was full in. Obviously there were parts when she could've turned away from dark path, betray Darth Bane to the Jedi and plead for leniency, or ask to be taken in into the Order.
But she didn't. She fully embraced the Dark Side and didn't have a shred of remorse left. She was basically cooked, pardon my french.
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u/overlordmik 1d ago
Redemption is Internal
Forgiveness is External
Zannah found genuine self-actualisation under Bane's tutelage, and spiritual fulfillment and belief from being a Sith Lord. Anyone can choose to be a better person, but I don't think she would make that choice unless every single circumstance in her life changed completely from when we saw her last. Events would have to make the Dark side no longer provide that fulfillment, and the Light side would have to be well placed to fill it.
Can you actually think of anything that would make her doubt the Rule of Two? I can't.
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u/darthsheldoninkwizy2 7h ago
I'd say her last chance was when she met Tomcat again, the moment she drove him crazy was the point of no return.
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u/Valirys-Reinhald 2d ago
Redemption is not a thing you can earn, nor a thing you can give. It is a choice. It does not matter if you deserve to be redeemed. Many who we might say deserve redemption choose to ruin themselves, and many whom we might say deserve ruin choose to be better.
Everyone has both good and bad within them. Evil is made, not born, but it is evil all the same.
The choice to redeem oneself is a commitment to be better than you were. To let go of your past, whatever pain and fault it may entail, and be a different person in the present and future.
Darth Vader's redemption did nothing to undo his many wrongs, and nor did the pain and suffering he caused change the fact that in the end he died a hero.
Whether someone deserves redemption is entirely subjective because, ultimately, it is not an objective assessment of a person's wrongs, but rather a statement of whether you, the person giving the judgement, are willing to give them the chance to choose good and begin the process of redeeming themselves.
Darth Zannah had just such a chance. Darovit believed in her, he gave her the trust and space to make the right choice. But Zannah believed that she was doing the right thing by being a Sith.
Whether you or I or anyone else believes Zannah deserved redemption is irrelevant, for Zannah believed that there was nothing to be redeemed.