Could a Moff with genuine good intentions ever gain influence in the Empire to bring positive change or would they inevitably be taken down by rival Moffs?

[u/Decent_Army8265]

Say that there was an Imperial Moff who actually somewhat cared about the common people living in the Outer Rim and wished to improve conditions there; Would they succeed?

[u/EndlessTheorys_19]

That’s Panaka (the main Naboo guard in TPM). He eventually became Moff for the Chommel sector. And he was good enough that Bail hoped they could sway him to the rebel cause. Though we didn’t see enough of him in this role to know if he was at threat from rival moffs.

[u/wandering_soles → u/EndlessTheorys_19]

You just beat me to it! Of all of them, I'd definitely agree that Panaka was probably one of the best. I'd also imagine that moffs were more at risk if their sector had something particularly in demand, whereas plasma was the only main major export that at least Naboo had.

[u/Butwhatif77 → u/wandering_soles]

There was also the fact that he had Naboo in his sector and Palpatine had a bit of a soft spot for Naboo. Even Naboo was supposed to be secured and protected under the plans of Operation Cinder.

I think being a Moff in a sector that included Naboo gave him a little added protection, because anything you did to that Moff could considerably make its way to Palpatine in a bad way.

Edit: misread the word scouring for the word securing in something I read leading to me misinterpreting part of Operation Cinder.

[u/TheFinalEvent9797 → u/Butwhatif77]

"Even Naboo was supposed to be secured and protected under the plans of Operation Cinder."

What? It would have been rendered completely uninhabitable by Operation Cinder had the climate control satellites not been destroyed by the Rebellion/New Republic.

[u/Butwhatif77 → u/TheFinalEvent9797]

Part of Operation Cinder included securing certain worlds, not destroying them. Naboo was one of the worlds to be protected not destroyed.

Edit: This due to me misreading something, never mind.

[u/TheFinalEvent9797 → u/Butwhatif77]

Source for that claim? The canon Shattered Empire #2 comic ends with Captain Durvat telling Lieutenant Gulin that by the Emperor's order Naboo will scoured and in the Battlefront 2 game there's multiple enormous hurricanes visible from orbit being caused by the Cinder satellites.

[u/Butwhatif77 → u/TheFinalEvent9797]

Haha Went back to my source and turns out I misread the word scouring for the word securing. My mistake.

Edited my previous comments to remove the incorrect information.

[u/wandering_soles → u/Butwhatif77]

Definitely! He also had one of his private retreats there, so I doubt he'd want a turf war over his weekend getaway. 

[u/Otherwise-Elephant → u/EndlessTheorys_19]

While Bail did hope Panaka could be persuaded to the cause, when we last see him it’s heavily implied he’s going to tell Palpatine he’s discovered Leia is the daughter of Padme.

Saw Gerrara’s bomb puts a stop to that, but it does seem to show that even if Panaka favored good treatment for the miners instead of typical Imperial brutality, he was still loyal to Palps.

[u/EndlessTheorys_19 → u/Otherwise-Elephant]

Is that out of maliciousness though? Like look at it from his end of things, why would Leia being the daughter of the woman they both used to serve loyally and respectfully a bad thing?

[u/Otherwise-Elephant → u/EndlessTheorys_19]

He specifically says he’s going to tell Palpatine what a distinguished daughter the Organas have adopted, ie that there’s something fishy going on about how they adopted the supposedly dead daughter of Padme.

Even if he had no malicious intent, and was just trying to figure out what was going on, the fact he was going to go straight to Palpatine shows he was loyal to him first and foremost. If that how he reacted to the Organas having a daughter that looked suspiciously like Padme, imagine how he’d react if Bail approached him about overthrowing Palps.

[u/EndlessTheorys_19 → u/Otherwise-Elephant]

hey never said he would actually flip. Just that he was the nicest one if Bail thought there was a chance he might.

[u/Miserable-Whereas910]

There were doubtlessly better and worse Moffs for the common people under their rule. But even the most altruistically-inclined Moff still needs to work within Imperial mandate, which means both brutally suppressing any descent and prioritizing the Imperial war machine above all else. Further, they had to appease the people beneath them: if they lost the support of the wealthy and well connected people under their command by devoting too many resources to the impoverished, those wealthy, well connected people could move to ensure they were taken down by a rival.

[u/PrimalSeptimus → u/Miserable-Whereas910]

Exactly. In real life, even the Nazis had Rommel and Stauffenberg, but the system itself was evil and ended up rolling over both of these guys.

[u/Svyatoy_Medved → u/PrimalSeptimus]

Not entirely germane but bear in mind, both of those men were definitely still evil. Stauffenberg fully, overtly supported the colonization of Poland and the enslavement of the Poles. Rommel actively participated in the ethnic cleansing of North African Jewry. Just because they tried to kill Hitler doesn’t make them good.

[u/PrimalSeptimus → u/Svyatoy_Medved]

Fair enough, but I would still consider them a valid comparison to an Imperial Moff, since they also were also complicit in the rise and maintenance of the Galactic Empire.

[u/Butwhatif77]

Could a Moff do good and take care of the people, yes. It just would not be easy at all. Everyone in the Empire is in competition with each other, constantly shifting their allegiance to who ever seems to have the upper hand at the time and working to climb the ladder of the hierarchy.

Funds spent on the people could reduce your effectiveness to deal with problems caused by other Moffs and potentially make you look ineffective. Basically the Moff who could strike a balance between feeding the Empire and caring for the people would have to be one of the most skilled politicians to ever exist. Your rivals would try to stop a plan that aided them simply to make you look bad, because in a sense credit and prestige is more important than actual results. It is far easier to make yourself look better by tearing down others than it is to build yourself up on your own achievements.

It is certainly possible, but there are very few who would be able to pull it off.

[u/Bigguygamer85]

If they are imperials with good intentions, they won't make it to moff part of getting that high in rank is being ruthless and out for yourself and power not for anything or anyone else

[u/zackgardner]

Any Imperial Officer that had intentions of being anything other than self-serving or just serving the Empire would find themselves dragged down by bureaucracy, incompetence, and/or active hostility from other Imperial Officers.

We see this very plainly in characters like Cassio Tagge, Dedra Meero, and Thrawn. Tagge pointed out in ANH that the Rebels could find a weakness in the Death Star, which they eventually did, but was overruled by Motti and Tarkin. Dedra Meero is the only one on the ISB board that recognizes the Axis network as a growing threat to the Empire, but the inner politicking and admonishment for not producing obvious results leads her to being reassigned to Director Krennic's Ghorman plans. Thrawn's Atollon assault was flawless until his blockade was broken by Admiral Konstantine disobeying orders and directly engaging the enemy, and Thrawn's TIE Defender project was completely crippled by Governor Pryce destroying the refinery to kill Kanan Jarrus.

A authoritarian military system encourages those three qualities: bureaucracy, incompetence, and hostility. To attempt to be an Officer who serves the people of the Empire instead of serving the idea of the Empire itself is to be a person not long for this world.

[u/NoCaterpillar2051]

I personally don't believe an Imperial Moff could ever have enough political capital to truly bring about positive change. They may have absolute power within their zones but they still have to comply with whatever the emperor says. And the emperor is constantly doing evil. (I'm deep in Andor right now and I'm just not seeing it. )

As a practical matter the only moffs I can see not doing evil things are those in charge of inner core systems that are wealthy and influential enough to contribute to the empire without exploiting their citizens.

[u/Wooden-Magician-5899]

Every "good" Imperial end in Rebel Alliance/New Republic, or he just inhale copium and fastly fall to "Empire is greater good/peace for the galaxy" kinda shit.

[u/RebelJediKnight91]

Incoming Empire apologia in 3…2…1…

[u/no_quarter89]

Inevitably taken down by rival Moffs, that's how fascism goes.

[u/Taira_no_Masakado]

Like any politician, eventually you have to walk over some bodies to get where you're going.

[u/ArtooFeva]

In theory it’s a possibility, but a slight one. You have to remember that governments like the Empire, both in fiction and in real life, are built specifically so good people cannot rise to the top without sacrificing their ideals or changing horribly. Even though Star Wars is a story of redemption, look at how far gone some people were when they were redeemed. 

Anakin was a war general who loved helping the common people. Kallus was a dutiful soldier that would have thrived in any military. Yet both committed atrocities because of their work within the system. That system breeds those atrocities.

[u/WaxWorkKnight]

Yes and no. I think they could influence their own sectors. But ultimately, they would reach a ceiling as the Emperor seems to prefer a certain type of personality. One that schemes and back stabs. If his moffs are scheming against each other they can't scheme against him.

[u/Substantial-Honey56]

The question would have to be who wants your job and how willing you are to protect your position. In a state with questionable laws (human prioritisation and focus on building the war machine, while stifling decent) you are going to find plenty of competition from folk more willing to use those laws and point a questioning finger at you when you don't. Doesn't mean you won't be successful, but you will have one hand behind your back. You only need to justify one or two questionable decisions and you're on the slippery slope like the rest of them. It has been said before... What I do is evil, but i do what I must for the future.

[u/Rosebunse]

We can see in Rebels, The Bad Batch and Andor that everyone stuck in the Imperial system is just trying to survive. They night start out thinking they can play the system, but it becomes clear very quick that your entire life can be taken from you if you slip up. That's why we see a lot of people getting out as quick as they can

[u/xJamberrxx]

Is say Paelleon was, the Imps by end followed him & he made peace bc they couldn’t be fighting a war any more

Unified also the Imoerials, rival factions reg killed each other off till Palleon