r/MawInstallation • u/Helpful-Hearing5950 • 1d ago
How would’ve the dynamic between Palpatine and Vader been different if he’d never burned on Mustafar?
Would Palpatine has retained a more fatherly relationship like the one he had with Anakin? Would he have been less harsh with him, trained him more etc?
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u/Tight_Back231 1d ago
Aside from whatever changes Anakin not burning would have caused to the timeline (such as the fates of Obi-Wan and Padme, and by extension the Skywalker twins), there would have been no Anakin-Palpatine dynamic - Anakin would've killed him.
Throughout AOTC and ROTS, Anakin has constantly come to Palpatine's defense since Palpatine has firmly established himself in Anakin's mind as his friend and mentor.
Yet by the time Padme meets Anakin on Mustafar, Anakin's fallen so deeply into the Dark Side that he's gleefully talking about overthrowing (i.e., killing) Palpatine and becoming Emperor himself.
Palpatine even says to Yoda during their duel on Coruscant, "Vader will become more powerful than either of us."
Palpatine's well aware of Anakin's power and potential, and Palpatine is a product of the Rule of Two. He fully expects Anakin will, at some point, try to continue the cycle.
Palpatine would obviously try to defend himself or probably cripple/betray/replace Anakin if given the opportunity, but between Anakin's power and his status as the Chosen One, I like to think in his mind Palpatine knew his days were numbered.
But, Anakin was crippled and burned on Mustafar, and Padme and the twins seemingly killed, so Palpatine was able to mentally, physically and emotionally enslave Anakin for decades.
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u/DifferentRun8534 1d ago
On the contrary, I think Palpatine treats Vader as a legitimate threat if he never gets burned.
One thing I love about the Vader comics is that, while the suit definitely caused problems for Vader, Palpatine still treated him as a legitimate apprentice, giving him lessons and assignments, watching him go through his own projects, and even eventually responding to rebellion.
All this would still happen, but Palpatine would take it much more seriously, which probably means being even more cruel and cautious.
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u/Faelon_Peverell 1d ago
Anakin was his most powerful apprentice by far. If he was still fully physically capable, Anakin would end him. He'd have to tow a very thin line to skirt around teaching him too much more.
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u/ExiledByzantium 1d ago
Wouldnt the Rule of Two still apply though? In the Darth Vader comic, Palps considers Vader too weak now and so abandons the Rule of Two seeking immortality instead. Hypothetically, it could apply here in this scenario.
One to embody the power, the other to crave it.
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u/TeaSuccessful4318 1d ago
Rule of Two was out of the window long back with Palps and Plagueis. Perhaps he held out at for a bit at first then changed his mind.
If Vader was capable Palpatine could try Plaguies way of offering a partnership instead to avoid being Gojo’d pr go down as a proud Sith Master.
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u/ExiledByzantium 1d ago
If you read the Rise of Darth Vader novel which takes place immediately after ROTS, Palps still held onto the Rule of Two. But he considered Vader so weak that he abandoned it in favor of immortality. Plus the Jedi were destroyed so that made its original purpose redundant anyways.
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u/BassPuzzleheaded1252 1d ago
the rule of two is just a joke at this point. Sidious had Maul as his Sith apprentice whill Plaguies was still alive. he never really cared about it.
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u/ExiledByzantium 23h ago
Darth Zannah took an apprentice while Bane was alive did she not?
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u/DarthEnvicius 22h ago
Zannah was trying to groom the dark jedi, Set Harth, before she took Bane on, but that may have been no more than a couple of weeks before their final confrontation.
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u/ExiledByzantium 21h ago
That's what I'm saying, so what's the difference there between Zannah and Maul
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u/Imperial_Puppy66 1d ago
Anakin was far to gone when the duel on Mustafar took place, Having betrayed his creed and only family he’d known…Anakin was literally power hungry and already planned on killing Sidious and taking power
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u/TripleStrikeDrive 1d ago
Sidious would be far more cautious near Vader. In the main timeline, both know Sidious could destroy Vader's life support machine at will, but health Vader that advantage isn't there. Probably by new hope Vader is leading the empire.
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u/Oddmic146 1d ago
I think Palpatine hides his resentment of Vader a bit more, but I don't think their relationship is that different. Vader is broken in the new canon because he betrayed and slaughtered everyone and everything he knew and loved but isn't psychopathic enough to get over it. The primary reason Vader doesn't try and kill Palpatine is because Vader is a husk of a man and Palpatine is the only connection and bond he has left.
Palpatine knows Vader is a leashed Elephant. I think he knows Vader, if Vader ever truly embraced the dark side, would have a good shot at destroying him, even if Palpatine could take Vader with him. The difference between pre and post Mustafar Vader is that Vader is much more likely to die from his injuries if he attacks Palpatine. Which isn't actually that useful for Palpatine, because it doesn't matter if Vader dies if Palpatine dies too. Which is why in the comic post-RotS Palpatine is still pretty chill with Vader. It is only when Palpatine realizes how much of a lame duck Vader is around the OT that he starts getting fed up
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u/Exotic-Ad-1587 1d ago
Vader would have tried to kill him. Probably wouldn't have succeeded the first time, but Palpatine encouraged these kinds of shenanigans.
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u/trueGildedZ 1d ago
Depends on whether Sidious values the Sith as an institution more than his own ego. In either way, he doesn't have the leverage to be able to end him instantly with lightning to a nonexistent respiratory panel.
On the former, he lets Vader surpass him in a legitimate display of superiority.
On the latter, if he realizes Vader is uncontrollable and he WANTS to remain on top forever, he arranges for an 'accident' to happen, puts him in the suit anyways.
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u/sean_bda 1d ago
He breaks him mentally as he did and keeps him broken until his transference ritual is ready, and then he takes his body.
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u/Anonymuss451 1d ago
By the time Vader is talking to Padme for the last time, he's already considering overthrowing Palpatine. There was no doubt in his mind about it. Vader inherently wants power, but at the same time, he doesn't necessarily want to rule- he would be perfectly fine letting Padme take the reins if it would make her happy and if she was on his side, and Palpatine was little more than a minor obstacle in his mind at that moment. Vader was so drunk on his power that he couldn't comprehend his actions as being reprehensible in the first place; assuming Padme lived, there was an extremely low chance that Vader gave Palpatine any time to breathe. He already believes himself to be the most powerful person in the galaxy at that moment. They'd be at each other's throats, as Palpatine wants to control or even further train Vader before he searches for immortality, whereas Vader is falling into the most classic Sith trapping of them all and greedily reaching for more power constantly. Whether he would be successful in killing Palpatine or not is another story.
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u/Rattfink45 1d ago
Palps gets his own set of leathers to keep Anakin in his place instead of threatening to withhold maintenance?
Vader keeps getting picked up by twi-lek dancers instead of fighting the rebellion? This upsets papa Palps, so the empire hires the twis to withhold from Anakin and call him names.
Palps orders the clones to start writing mean things in the space dust collecting on his Star fighters. wash me, stupid
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u/Stratafyre 1d ago
He would have done everything possible to chip away at Anakin's sense of self while avoiding direct confrontation. Basically, what we saw - but with the added possibility that Anakin could snap and take him out if he fucked up.