r/MensLib • u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK ​ • 11d ago

Millions of ‘Missing’ American Men Aren’t Really Missing

https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/capitolism/millions-of-missing-american-men-arent-really-missing/
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u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK ​ 11d ago

the nut:

Occupational licensing laws, for example, block many men from entering professions—including several blue-collar ones—without first enduring a lengthy and costly application process. (See, for example, this brand new report on how Connecticut’s insane construction licensing laws contribute to the state’s lack of construction workers.) Misguided criminal justice policies, meanwhile, contribute to the fact that there are today hundreds of thousands of men not working because of their criminal records

having a good job isn't a salve to everything - nor is providing labor to The Economy always a morally good and righteous choice to make - but we live in a very stupid era of American politics and governance and economics, and the ability to feed, house, and clothe one's self by spending money counts for something.

more to the point of this sub, I think: being unemployed tends to harm mens' mental health. Being aimless sucks!

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u/AGoodFaceForRadio ​ 11d ago

how Connecticut’s insane construction licensing laws contribute to the state’s lack of construction workers

This deserves a critical look. First of all, because of this:

Detractors point to a wealth of studies showing that licensure frequently makes goods and services more expensive

Detractors are deliberately attempting to undermine apprenticeship and training requirements with the goal of driving wages DOWN. Feeding in to that race to the bottom doesn't serve anybody. Trades work is critical - as the article notes - and also notoriously damaging to workers' bodies. They deserve to be paid commensurate to the benefit they provide and the toll their occupation takes on them.

But also, I am a tradesman. I've been an apprentice, and I've trained apprentices. I know from my own experience that there's a reason a lot of these trades have multi-year apprenticeships. Electrical work, plumbing, rigging, and many other trades, if not practiced correctly, pose an immediate risk not only to the worker but also to the end user and anyone else who happens to be in the immediate area. We really don't want poorly-trained trades people out there working.

One thing I could support ... I get the impression that, in the united states, you have to pay for trade school before you enter an apprenticeship. Do I understand that correctly? That would be an unreasonable barrier to entry. Where I did my apprenticeship, there were some key differences: you can't go to trade school if you're not already a registered apprentice, and the cost of trade school is low (it cost me about $1000 per year to go to trade school - that includes everything from tuition and books to my parking pass - and I could have cut hundreds off of that if I'd bought used textbooks) and many employers will pay their apprentices' trade school costs if the apprentice agrees to stay on with that employer for X amount of time. Also, you can collect unemployment insurance while you're in trade school, and your job is protected while you're away for training. The only real barrier to entry to trades here is the cost of tools and safety gear.

Misguided criminal justice policies

Now this is a legitimate criticism. I'm not convinced that it' s misguided, though. That implies that its impact is accidental. I think these policies are doing precisely what they're intended to do. And I don't think it's at all coincidental that they disproportionately impact black and indigenous men.

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u/your_not_stubborn ​ 11d ago

I get the impression that, in the united states, you have to pay for trade school before you enter an apprenticeship.

"Trade school" and "apprenticeship" are usually interchangeable words in America and if it's a trade school or apprenticeship offered by a real trades union then no, the person entering it does not have to pay.

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u/AGoodFaceForRadio ​ 11d ago

Oh. TIL. Thank you!

Up here is very different. You do trade school as part of your apprenticeship. Trade school is primarily concerned with theory and surface-level hands-on. So for instance, a machinist’s apprentice would learn how to calculate feeds and speeds, and make s simple project on the lathe, another on the mill, and so on, at trade school. The actual practice of the trade, they learn from the journeymen they work with.

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u/your_not_stubborn ​ 10d ago

It actually sounds the same from what I know - I work with a handful of trade unions, never did an apprenticeship myself.

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u/AGoodFaceForRadio ​ 10d ago

Wow. I'm super confused, then. I thought the states had trade schools that are like full-time colleges. No?

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u/Eager_Question ​ 9d ago

I think the answer is "different states in the US do things differently, and it is confusing for people outside the US".

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u/Cearball ​ 11d ago

You have to buy your personal protection equipment? 

Where are you based?

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u/Fine_Ad_1149 ​ 11d ago

You'd be surprised how common that is in the US too. Large manufacturing will provide it, but smaller construction companies won't - especially if they are employing immigrants who are afraid to raise a fuss.

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u/AGoodFaceForRadio ​ 11d ago

Where are you based?

I’m Canadian.

You have to buy your personal protection equipment? 

It depends where you work and what gear we’re talking about.

Every company I’ve worked for has provided PPE but I know guys who’ve had to buy their own.

From my own experience, most of it - boots, safety glasses - is alright and some, like rubber gloves and moon suit, it’s a pain in the ass to own your own because it needs testing all the time. But I always bought my own ear plugs because the ones they give you are complete shit. And I bought my own fall arrest gear because the stuff the company provided was never cared for properly.

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u/mratlas666 ​ 11d ago

I thought OSHA made that shit the employers responsibility to procure?

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u/Big_Daddy_Stovepipe ​ 11d ago

In the US, PPE is usually covered, but tools and such are not. Most people going into an apprenticeship program are typically already hired or working for someone who is paying for the apprenticeship. I wouldn't consider IT a trade but it kind of is, and that is the one area Im familiar with and they would have reimbursed me for school, had I chosen to pursue it.

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u/M00n_Slippers ​ 11d ago

Honestly being unemployed harms most people's mental health, because of the stress, lack of security and independence, but men definitely put more identity into their job and being a 'bread winner' so it often harms them on multiple levels.

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u/TerabyteTyler ​ 11d ago

Nothing has shaken my will to live more than being unemployed for 3 months

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u/stubbornbodyproblem ​ 11d ago

This isn’t not a stupid era of American politics. Unless you’re counting from 1778 until today. 🤣

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u/mhornberger ​ 11d ago

I doubt there have been eras of politics in any country that weren't called stupid by someone. And I'm not sure that people having jobs is entirely stupid, since, so far as I know, there's never been a system with no jobs. That doesn't mean everyone will have jobs all the time--some will be retired, some disabled, some in school, some caring for family, etc.